Garrard Type A II stylus.....oops

[getter365]

I recently purchased a Garrard Type A II, why..because I just restored my dad's Type A and had to have one for myself. Anyway, the turntable came with a Shure M3D cartridge. It was wired for mono but I removed the jumper. The stylus was damaged so I bought a new, generic stylus that supposedly could be a substitute for many vintage Shure styli of the time. Then I read that this stylus is rated for only 1.5 to 2.5 grams of tracking - #$%&!!! The new stylus has shipped already but I did not try it yet. Is this low tracking rating incompatible with my vintage Garrard? Should I not use it cause it may damage my albums? What if I need 3 or 4 grams tracking, will this stylus or my albums be damaged?

I have nothing against buying a new cartridge and stylus with 3-7 gram range tracking but I wanted to hear what the old Shure M3D sounded like since I never heard one.

 

[grooveman]

I've used both the N3D and an after market N21stylus with my M3D. The N21 is said to track lighter, at 1.5-2.5 grams, but it never sounded very good at the lighter tracking force IMO.

I currently have the M3D on my Empire 980 tonearm, using the N21 stylus with tubular cantilever. I gradually increased the VTF from 1.75 to over 3.5 grams, until it sounded smooth, without any edginess or distortion. That's 1 gram over the N21's recomended max of 2.5 VTF. This still doesn't cause the M3D's large body, to sag or drag on the record's surface. It's actually tracking very well and sounds great!

FWIW...I only used the M3D cart. with the N3D stylus on my Type A. The N3D was an after market purchased from LPGear. I had good results using it on the Type A, tracking at 3.5-3.75 VTF. I don't think you'll experience any problems with record wear, if you track heavier with the N21 stylus. Also...the Type A won't auto trip at the end of the record's side, if you track below 3 grams. Hope this helps!

 

[gadget73]

Should be OK. The old Type A doesn't want to run under 3 grams or so. The mechanism won't kick over reliably. Mine runs fine at 3g but even getting it adjusted less than that is dicey. I got it down to 2.5 and it worked most of the time, but every now and then it would "stick" in the groove towards the end because it couldn't drive over the trip pawl.

 

[getter365]

Thanks grooveman for your wonderful insight into this. Good to know that I can go about 1 gram over the 2.5. It looks like if I can track somewhere between 3 and 3.5, all should be well, including the auto-trip.

 

[getter365]

Thank you gadget too. I wish I had not rushed into my purchase. Well, I did not rush but I noticed the 1.5-2.5 tracking spec after I purchased the needle. I wanted an N3d type but I am getting a N21 type. We'll see how this works out. If I am not happy, I'll make sure I get the N3D stylus, or go for a whole new cartridge/stylus like the Pickering types that were used in Garrards or the Stanton 500 types with heavier tracking.

 

[gadget73]

If you can still get one new and cheap, the Stanton 680e.v3 is spec'd at 2-5 grams and works well. I bought one new a few months back on amazon for about 45 bucks. It sounds fine on my A-II.

 

[getter365]

Hi Gadget73. Yes, that Stanton you mentioned is still available at a low price. Is the 680e.V3 an improvement over the 400V3 and the 500V3?

 

[gadget73]

The 680 line was a step up from the 500 series when both were in current production. The 400 is just the 500 with a heavier tracking and higher output stylus. The body itself is the same as far as I've ever been able to figure out. All things being equal with the stock as-fitted stylus, the 680 is probably better. I think they sell for less money too, which is interesting.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

I would stick to the Stanton 680 conical in that tonearm. Use the modern day heavy duty which tracks at 3 grams nicely. The 680 is a superior cartridge to the 400 and 500 though those are superb in Garrard Type A Mk II changers.

 

[getter365]

Status report on Type A2 with M3D and 757-D7 stylus

Here is what I did tonight. The generic stylus arrived. I installed it. Then I balanced the tonearm by setting the spring to its rearmost position (zero tension) and setting the counterweight 'til it was level.

Then instead of using the Garrard spring to adjust tracking force (I don't have a tracking force gauge right now), I left it alone and added a penny (prior to 1982) which is about 3.1 grams to the top of the cartridge shell. I feel this is more accurate as who knows what the force the Garrard spring is providing w/o a gauge. I know it is hardly elegant but it works well for dialing in the optimum weight. See picture.

One peculiar item, the actual needle arm hardly deflected at all when it set on the record and I don't think the actual point of the stylus is perpendicular to the surface of the record. Should it be perpendicular or is it okay for it to face rearward slightly?

I played a couple of albums and here is my feedback:

1) Tracked well, did not skip at all, auto eject function worked fine at the end of the side of the record.

2) Tone of the generic was very good with high frequencies rolled off a bit. I compensated by moving up my treble control and it sounded nice and bright.
Bass and midrange were very good.

So I am happy with the sound but may try something more modern like the Stanton 680 just for experimentation purposes plus your feedback on that cartridge.

Thank you for your assistance everyone.

P.S. I am not sure that this stylus is a 757-D7. The box says EVG with a part number of PM3118D and a SKU of 796175102556 for what it is worth

 

[getter365]

Not happy with old M3D and generic stylus

Listening more closely I noticed a fuzziness in the left channel only. I thoroughly cleaned everything - all connections and checked them with an ohm-meter from the input RCA cables - all the way to the pins on the cartridge but touching the pins with the female wire terminals half way pushed onto the pins to also check cartridge to terminal resistance.

All are perfect.

So either I have a bad new generic stylus, or a very old cartridge that has issues with the left side.

I am not going to drag on this thread any longer. I just wanted to let you know what has transpired. Next move is to get a new cartridge/stylus, then all should be well.

I must say that the right channel sounds quite amazing, but the left has some issues. We march on.....

 

[gadget73]

The VTA on these is sort of funny. It tends to run very tail-up due to how high the rear pivot is. You may get some gains by adding spacers to get it closer to level. I did that with mine actually. Its of course very variable since it changes with every record on the stack but you can play with it to get a more reasonable range. Also depending on the cart, you may be able to twist it a little left or right to improve things. Theres no alignment to speak of but sometimes tweaking it a bit can make things better or worse.