General comment about my amp speaker matching..

[armyslowrdr]

So I noticed a good discussion over on Hoffman that was locked in 2020---dont see why--there wasnt anything that attacked anyone...anyway the topic was :
Is 100wpc enough for speaker with sensitivity rated 89.5dB?"
My story is I have been for the longest running 75 watt monoblocks tubed with 87dB sensitive 4 ohm 150 watt continuous max Sonusfaber Olympica 1s. I tend to listen 70 to 75 dB at 5.50 feet away from the speakers and in a treated 11X12 foot room. I noticed there was an improvement from the Epos Elan I had been using. BUT on certain passages of certain songs I could hear the speakers seemingly "misbehaving"...I will say like a tizz.
And I never could turn them up much higher without feeling things would fall apart.

Recently after reading great reviews about Class D NAD amps, I decided to get an Audiophonics Class D Purifi amp from France. 400 watts into 4 ohms .005 THD. I am gobsmacked. Everything I play suddenly the height of the image is greater, vocals are perfectly clear, and bass is tuneful. I now find I want to listen at 80-83 dB range.

IT is hard for me to wrap my head around why the Class D is so much better but I wonder if it could just be down to clean solid state power vs the coloration that tubes bring....

I am wanting to trade those monoblocsk in for a solid state McIntosh (yeah I know they are not accurate but I'd dig a watt meter---the C2500 pre just has a dB scale) and see how that sound compares to the Aphonics. Anything in the 150 watt to 300 watt range. The MC252 really looks nice. But it seems right now the famous NY outlet cant do an even trade---guess MC75s aren't a hot item now... So I'll hang on to them.

I had a few on the McIntosh Community FB page ask me if I've heard the MC252 and am I sure I would like that sound.... Well if I like a 400 watt Class D playing at a fraction of a watt, I'm sure I'd like the MC252 playing at a fraction of a watt.

I just know for whatever reason the 75 watt tubed amps don't play nicely with my fabers in my room. I thought they did...and I guess to a point the combo was passable. But now I know better.

Guess I will be a Class D user for a while until I can outright afford to get a solid state Mc in the system, or find the right trade.

 

[joecoulson]

Isn’t it great when you try something new and the results are more than pleasing? Makes you brave for change. Which in turn produces new experiences and grows character!
Man! All that from trying a new amplifier technology !

 

[rothwellaudio]

Guess I will be a Class D user for a while until I can outright afford to get a solid state Mc in the system...

What makes you think a solid state Mc will be an improvement?
My experience has been that power output is a very poor indicator of sound quality. This is the kind of logic that I find flawed:
"I had a 50 watt amp, then swapped it for 100 watts - so more power is better."
or...
"The 100 watt amp I have sounds better than the 50 watt amp I used to have, so another 100 watt amp will also sound better."
or
"The 100 watt class D amp I tried sounds better than the 50 SS amp I had, so a 100 watt SS amp will also sound better."

And there are many variations of the above.
My, admitted limited, experience of class D amps has been that they can sound remarkably transparent but somehow become tiring after a while. However, that's a generalisation that may be outmoded and I wouldn't rely on it to make recommendations.
Basically I'm recommending that every amp should be taken on its own merits and trying to extrapolate from power output or device type or class what another amp will sound like is fool's errand.

 

[armyslowrdr]

Just I know that the speakers I am using does much better I believe with the Class D Purifi than when I am using the tubed monoblocks.

Of course, there is no guarantee a solid-state Mc will outperform the tubed ones....but with these speakers I am willing to bet it will.

Also you can call it flawed logic but very many people, even those who have enjoyed better equipment for tens of years, are not experienced in the nuances. Also....I said I'M SURE I'D LIKE... not that it WILL SOUND BETTER....

 

[opnly bafld]

What tube amps?

 

[armyslowrdr]

What tube amps?

It is in the 1st post... McIntosh 75 monoblocks----very lackluster as compared to the Class D purifi amp I recently received--- when paired with Sonus Faber Olympica 1s.

 

[izeek11]

iono jack but i gonna throw some stuff at the wall and see if it sticks.
first, imho, more power isnt always or mostly about volume but the ability to control drivers particularly during challenging transients in music. like bass drops, cannon fire, some organ work.
i would imagine big amps would have big power supplies that can provide the current necessary for those transients.
id surmise that whether the amp is ss or tubed seems not the factor for depth. it seems the current is the driving factor for dynamics. thats from reading a lot about big amps because the subject interests me.
descriptions of the dynamics of big amps always mention depth, detail, and control
improvement. as opposed to how good or loud the volume was.
my pov also, is that this seems to apply more to power amps then rcvrs/avrs. im sure there are rcvrs powerful enough but they probably do not have as robust a power supply as an amp will.
my own experience, non a/b, is that my 150w amp definitely outperforms my 120w avr.
the avr sounds good. had i not already had power amps, i mightve been satisfied.
the difference became real when i dropped the avr in to sub while my pre is restored.
the avr has no preouts(its 12yrs old) so its running straight duty.
and i was running the avr as my head unit before i got the seperates.
whats not there is the gravitas or authority ny amps have.
im feenin for my pre and amp set-up.
yourmoneywillabsolutelyvary.g

 

[E-Stat]

Guess I will be a Class D user for a while until I can outright afford to get a solid state Mc in the system, or find the right trade.

Understand that decision would be based solely upon cosmetics.

I use one of Bruno's earlier Ncore designs in the garage and have zero interest in bouncing meters.

 

[prighello]

Might be a power thing but it might also be just how different the tube Macs sound compared to Purfi class d. It's hard to say really since they amps are so different.

However, I do recall a video on Youtube where Alan Shaw of Harbeth and another guy were trying to answer the question of how much power is needed for music. They were quite surprised by the result as the speakers (30.1 I think?) drew quite a bit of power (500+ wpc?) on bass heavy music. In their experiment, the demands seemed to vary a lot based upon the bass content of the music they played. Acoustic music drew wayyy less power than electronic music.

Power needs can be calculated based upon listening distance, speaker sensitivity, and desired SPL. The real question is what's the crest factor of the music to finish off the equation? I'm not sure that is easy to understand as it varies.

In my own experience, some years ago I took the speakers that are my avatar to a DIY event. We played them with some tube amps Robert Modjeski brought over and he hooked them up to power meters. The speakers aren't very sensitive at 81 db, but I was surprised to see we were maxing out these 100wpc amps at low volumes say in the 80 ish db range. Techincally, they should have been fine needing only a few watts but that was not the case according to Roger or the power meters.

 

[armyslowrdr]

Understand that decision would be based solely upon cosmetics.

I use one of Bruno's earlier Ncore designs in the garage and have zero interest in bouncing meters.

What I meant to say is I would keep both and alternate uses. UNtil then I am sure I will be swapping the tubed amps in still on occasion.