Genesis I speakers - anyone has an opinion?

[gladiator335]

I'm talking about Genesis I (not Genesis Physics) speakers. I have to admit that I have no idea if Genesis and Genesis Physics are the same company.
I found some technical info on Human .
Just curious if anyone here has them and how do they sound :scratch2:

 

[relaximus]

Vlad:

I have both the model I's and their successor the model 1's. They sound very much like EPI 100's with a bit less bass extension. That is to say, very nice. I find their output pretty well balanced and surprisingly full given their size. I use both, in rotation with TimeWindow 3's, EPI 100's and KG-4's, at my office.

Dave

 

[JohnVF]

Very nice tweeter. Fairly efficient. Good overall balance and sound but also a bit boxy and closed-in sounding compared to some other speakers I've had. All in all, for what you can pick them up for, a really good bargain. I had several pairs for awhile as they kept appearing wherever I'd go. But they've moved on..there are better speakers (but maybe not for the price.)

 

[gladiator335]

As far as I know EPI 100 are "the half" of EPI 202s. Am I correct or as usually due to my old guy memory missing something?
I like EPI very much. So I guess those Genesis worth refoaming?

 

[relaximus]

Vlad:

Yep, the 202's have 2 "Burhoe" modules. The EPI 100 is a single module. The Genesis model I's and 1's are essentially a 3/4 sized EPI 100 cabinet with the same driver complement.

As far as re-foaming the model I's, finding the original "green" surrounds might prove a challenge. There is a thread here (somewhere) where someone used (I think) shoe dye to color their surrounds green. You will likely have to spend ~$20 for proper surrounds. Also, are these covered in shelf paper (vinyl) or veneer? If they are veneered I'd be much more likely to put some effort and a few $'s into them.

Dave

 

[Wolverine]

Great little speaker.
If memory serves me correct Homer J was the source for the "green" surrounds on my I's. You may want to PM him and see if you all can work something out.

 

[sealy]

Very nice tweeter. Fairly efficient. Good overall balance and sound but also a bit boxy and closed-in sounding compared to some other speakers I've had. All in all, for what you can pick them up for, a really good bargain. I had several pairs for awhile as they kept appearing wherever I'd go. But they've moved on..there are better speakers (but maybe not for the price.)

I dunno, the inverted dome tweeter is purported to have better dispersion characteristics than almost any other tweeter. With my Genesis speakers, the dispersion is so outstanding, it's hard to tell the sound is coming from the boxes themselves.

 

[relaximus]

... Good overall balance and sound but also a bit boxy and closed-in sounding compared to some other speakers I've had.

John:

Are you comparing these to your Dahlquist's or Sony's? If so, that's not really fair my friend. Let's keep the playing field level and compare them against their league. Keep in mind the size of these puppies and their (admittedly) modest driver complement. Given those parameters, even you'd have to admit they are pretty darn good. Model I's and 1's can be had for damn near nothing (or free from FreeCycle; that's where I got mine). A few bucks and a little time in a re-foam/re-cap and you have a damn fine bookshelf speaker. Just my opinion, of course.

Dave

 

[gladiator335]

I'm not even sure this is veneer or paper...Another pair of speakers...oh, boy!

 

[JohnVF]

John:

Are you comparing these to your Dahlquist's or Sony's? If so, that's not really fair my friend. Let's keep the playing field level and compare them against their league. Keep in mind the size of these puppies and their (admittedly) modest driver complement. Given those parameters, even you'd have to admit they are pretty darn good. Model I's and 1's can be had for damn near nothing (or free from FreeCycle; that's where I got mine). A few bucks and a little time in a re-foam/re-cap and you have a damn fine bookshelf speaker. Just my opinion, of course.

Dave

If my critique seemed overly harsh it wasn't meant to be. I love them...I've had Genesis 1, 10s, and 1+, at least I think that is what has been through here.

I was more comparing them to my Kef 103.2s, Celestion SL-6s and Rega Juras (all 2-ways)...the speakers that now rotate in and out of the system the Genesis were in. There's a lot of speakers on the used market that beat these to my ears but as I said, for the money, the Genesis are simply outstanding speakers. They replaced NHT SuperOnes and PSB Alphas in my systems when I discovered vintage gear several years ago and I honestly think that they sounded a lot better than both of those fairly highly regarded budget 'audiophile' speakers.

The tweeter is really nice, no complaints here.

No, there is no comparison to the Dahlquists I had or the Sony's or even the Kefs (well, they're much more versatile as far as amplification than the kefs and actually sounded better on my tube amps) but the differences aren't something that would make me not want them around. They did so many things right that you have to go way out of their league to better them. They beat a few things that are supposed to be above their league, too..to me at least.

I still have a pair of Epi Model 2.0 that I need to refoam...same tweeter with a more advanced crossover 6" driver and passive radiator. They're supposed to be surprisingly good..I'll report what I find when I get around to it.

Again...I didn't mean to slight them. Great speaker and for the price you can find them at, outstanding.

 

[tarior]

If they are proper Genesis Is, then they are Genesis Physics speakers, and they are excellent. There aren't many two way speakers out there that sound better than Genesis Is, except maybe II+. IMO, of course.

 

[gladiator335]

Yes, they are Genesis Physics (I had to pay attention to the sticker).
Is that a regular 8" foam?

 

[relaximus]

Is that a regular 8" foam?

Vlad:

I'm not certain, but I don't believe so. Touch base with HJS, GordonW or Hue (sp?) @ Human Speakers for proper surrounds. Regular 8" surrounds may indeed work, but I'd prefer not taking the chance of changing the character of that 200A woofer.

Dave

 

[anytune]

Yes, they are Genesis Physics (I had to pay attention to the sticker).
Is that a regular 8" foam?

Yes, standard 8-inch surrounds. I have refoamed several sets. The originals were lime green, and there may be someone out there who knows where to get those, if color is important to you. BTW, you are correct -- Genesis Physics Corp is the high-quality speaker company, not Genesis Media Lab.

 

[gladiator335]

I don't really care for surrounds to be green or black.
Thanks for the info.

 

[relaximus]

Yes, standard 8-inch surrounds.

Are you certain? A surround that fits is not always the same as the one the designer specified. It may well be the same size, but is it the same roll width/radius? Foam thickness/compliance? Generic speakers can be re-foamed with generic surrounds (IMHO). In my (albeit limited) experience, a speaker such as EPI 100's (including certain Genesis models), various BA's, Dahlquist's/Advent's, etc. will lose something if the proper surround is not used. Gordon, Ray and several others that are far more well versed in speaker design can chime in. But for me, especially when dealing with something as specialized as Mr. Burhoe's module, I'd want something that closely matches the designer's intent.

Rambling ...
Dave

 

[Nat]

While its true that the surround can have an effect on how a speaker sounds, I think there is a fair amount of wiggle room (quite literally) in what will work. It's probably important to maintain the orientation -- inverted or normal -- and it's probably also important to try to be pretty close to the roll size, but I don't have any qualms in using standard generic surrounds for almost all speakers.
Cost and availability are major considerations -- it doesn't make sense to me to spend 30 or 40 bucks for a pair of surrounds for a speaker that isn't actually worth more than that on the market (and unless the speakers are mintcollector's items, most speakers aren't all that valuable).
My rational is this: it's widely acknowledged that surrounds need breaking in. That suggests to me that the characteristics of surrounds are not fixed, but change over time, so the idea that there is some perfect surround and only it will give the correct sound isn't justified. A close but not identical surround will just be somewhere else on the time/usage continuum.