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Genesis model 1 crossover caps

keithpgdrb

keithpgdrb

Super Member
I'm finally moving into recapping a couple sets of speakers. one of them is the Genesis 1, not I.. I was looking at the HUMAN speakers site for info, and the crossover only has one cap, and is shown on the schematic as "10". does this speaker really only use 1 10uF cap? or am I misunderstanding what the cap value is?

Part two of this question is what kind of caps to use? I have been looking for caps to do my original advents, and I'm up to about $35 bucks in caps. I was choosing the Dayton Precision 1% Metallized Polypropylene Capacitors. are there other less expensive caps in the dayton line that would be good for these projects?

the one thing I know, is I do not want to use solen caps, as they are fairly consistently reported to be "bright". kind of irritating, because they look less expensive.
 
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Yes, it's a single 10µF cap per speaker. The simple first-order crossover is part of the Burhoe module's sweet sound. I've used the 1% and Jantzen CrossCaps with good results.
 
I believe Robie did some experimenting with a small bypass cap on the Genesis I also. Hopefully he'll chime in on that.
 
I've seen reports of people that have checked Dayton's regular line of caps and found them to be almost as close to spec as the 1% "Precision" caps. Typically within 2-3%.
 
Thanks for the prompt, Ray!

Keith, I recapped some larger Genesis Model 10s that I believe use the same tweeter as the model 1s. I had to refoam these before I could listen to them and unfortunately did the refoam at the same time as I did the recap. As a result, I never heard them with the original caps.

I believe the Human site calls for an 8uf cap (for the Model 10s) but the original was a 10uf cap in my speakers so that's what I used. I replaced the original cap with Daytons and figured that if the Dayton 5%s were good, the 1%s must be better.

I'm not sure why they turned out this way but mine are very forward (or hot) sounding. Ray has heard them and I think he concurs (as does Snade). Mine have very limited midrange, too. In all fairness this could be the result of surrounds that are too stiff but could be the 1% Daytons. I probably still have under 20 hours on them even though I did all this work 3 years ago but have recently tried to play them around the clock with a tuner but something always screws that up (power outages that cause the tuner to turn off or my wife's need for quiet).

With Ray's help, I tried to tone down the tweeter by installing several different values of resistors. Although the resistors introduced a change, IMO they didn't really help all that much. I even thought about using the 8uf cap recommended by Human but Ray opined that that would make them even hotter.

Then I tried Theta bypass caps. They are now much better but still tough to listen to on bad program material because they are so revealing (even with tubes - my old McIntosh MA230). On good material, they can sound very remarkable and image incredibly for a larger bookshelf. I'm getting some mids now with the bypass caps. However, I would prefer a bit more laid back presentation and still more mids.

I think you heard these at my house last February (with the McIntosh in my utility room) but I can't recall. If you ever want to hear them, PM me.

As always, YMMV.

Ray, if I have any of this wrong, please help correct it.
 
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Robie said:
Thanks for the prompt, Ray!

Keith, I recapped some larger Genesis Model 10s that I believe use the same tweeter as the model 1s. I had to refoam these before I could listen to them and unfortunately did the refoam at the same time as I did the recap. As a result, I never heard them with the original caps.

I believe the Human site calls for an 8uf cap (for the Model 10s) but the original was a 10uf cap in my speakers so that's what I used. I replaced the original cap with Daytons and figured that if the Dayton 5%s were good, the 1%s must be better.

I'm not sure why they turned out this way but mine are very forward (or hot) sounding. Ray has heard them and I think he concurs (as does Snade). Mine have very limited midrange, too. In all fairness this could be the result of surrounds that are too stiff but could be the 1% Daytons. I probably still have under 20 hours on them even though I did all this work 3 years ago but have recently tried to play them around the clock with a tuner but something always screws that up (power outages that cause the tuner to turn off or my wife's need for quiet).
Click to expand...

Hey Robie,

thanks for the extended info!! I unfortunately did not hear those speakers at your pad last year. I had listened to some klh's I think. Although I did want to hear your Dynaco a25's again. those are on my short list to try. when's the next hang? lol.

I actually find the upper midrange to be a bit forward (hot) as well on the Genesis 1. This is one of the reasons I wanted to try the recap. Although I will say that the clarity of the tweeters is amazing on specific recordings.

I have decided to go with the dayton 10uF caps that are at 5%. its funny, because the site lists that they are all 10% caps, but when you check a specific cap, its specs list 5%. Odd.. anyway, that will save some money. I'll report back with results using these caps.. Hopefully it will balance things a bit.

more to come.
 
Got my caps today. these things are HUGE! guess I didnt really pay attention to the measurements. not a big deal, as they go inside the box, but the 12 I got for another project is as big as my thumb!!! lol.. learn something new every day.
 
keithpgdrb said:
Got my caps today. these things are HUGE! guess I didnt really pay attention to the measurements. not a big deal, as they go inside the box, but the 12 I got for another project is as big as my thumb!!! lol.. learn something new every day.
Click to expand...

You should see the Dayton 50µF's I ordered for my AR-3a's. Oh mama are those things big.
 
notes:

well, right now with the new caps, the bass seems a bit weaker than I remember. Not as punchy. top end is about the same, possibly a bit more tame. I'm hoping as the caps burn in a bit, the bass opens up. we'll see.

there were two uniden 5uF caps in parallel before I changed them out. They actually tested well. one side was 10.something, the other was 11.something. does anyone know anything about the uniden caps? I have no idea if these are original or not. they tested so well, I'm guessing the seller changed them.

overall, they still sound great.
 
Hmmm, changing out the cap should affect the bass at all. Is it possible that the treble is hotter now and making the bass seem thin by comparison? The only other thing I can think of is that maybe everything didn't get sealed up well when put back together. Had one of those adventures at Robie's place too.
 
Double-check the integrity of the cabinet seal, as Ray suggested... Put some 3M Strip-Calk (found at most auto parts stores) in between the woofer frame and the baffle.
 
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