I have heard higher end class D amps. I have my reasons/preferences for class A or A/B amplification. If a person likes Class D, that's great. Thanks for posting your thoughts and feedback.
Going from separates to an integrated. Have you been satisfied?
- Thread starter techguy0192
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I have heard higher end class D amps. I have my reasons/preferences for class A or A/B amplification. If a person likes Class D, that's great. Thanks for posting your thoughts and feedback.
Lavane
Lunatic Member
I most cases seperates are better IMHO. There are compromises made when preamps and amps and even tuners are put together in one box. I haven't run across an integrated amplifier I prefer over separates yet. Even when it comes to the power amplifier itself, mono blocks are a step up in most cases.
I have a couple SS integrated amps. One I use as a preamp. The preamp stage is pretty decent. The compromise is in the amplifier stage, while not horrible, the system sounds much petter with a separate power amplifier.
I have a couple SS integrated amps. One I use as a preamp. The preamp stage is pretty decent. The compromise is in the amplifier stage, while not horrible, the system sounds much petter with a separate power amplifier.
L. Larabee
Active Member
I can't say that I blame you. The offerings in class d and pre/dac components makes the choices more complicated than it used to be.
My take is class a/b performance equal/better than class d and NA made and a 20 yr. warranty. Price is the arbiter and I wouldn't be able to make a choice for anyone. As far as a subjective difference between the choices, possible but very difficult.
Nowadays a top-rated integrated amp sounds just as good as separate amp+preamp combo of similar quality. Decades ago when amps buzzed and created a lot of EMI it was a good idea to separate them but not anymore, imho
Ultimately, I agree with your preference as well, but the better switchers excel in the midrange. I use an OEM based Ncore in the garage system driving New Advents. I find their Achilles Heel still lies at the top. Clean, but lacking the ultimate sense of upper harmonic “air” you hear live. They may score great in terms of SINAD but that metric just doesn’t tell the whole story to these ears.
I have numerous integrated amps that are definitely not the TOTL but not shite either, they have their place here. For one a nice example of a Kenwood KA-7300 true dual mono amplifier, with it's clean architectural layout paying obvious homage to the Legendary Supreme 600.
Outstanding piece of gear, but here's the thing, connecting a Belles I power amp allowing the Kenny to only function as a preamp was an obvious improvement.
Later replacing the Kenny completely now with an Amber Model 17 Full Function Preamp mated to the Belles amp was another quite obvious improvement.
Again, I like my integrated amps, they definitely have their place in my home, but I'm not kidding myself thinking they might be the equal of separates.
Sure there are some REALLY outstanding integrated amps out there, Mac made a few that I would love to.have, but I would rather have my separate Mac pieces. Moving from a preamp/power amp setup to an integrated only eliminates one piece of gear, and one pair of interconnects, not seeing the point if it's more room and simplicity that are the goals.
Outstanding piece of gear, but here's the thing, connecting a Belles I power amp allowing the Kenny to only function as a preamp was an obvious improvement.
Later replacing the Kenny completely now with an Amber Model 17 Full Function Preamp mated to the Belles amp was another quite obvious improvement.
Again, I like my integrated amps, they definitely have their place in my home, but I'm not kidding myself thinking they might be the equal of separates.
Sure there are some REALLY outstanding integrated amps out there, Mac made a few that I would love to.have, but I would rather have my separate Mac pieces. Moving from a preamp/power amp setup to an integrated only eliminates one piece of gear, and one pair of interconnects, not seeing the point if it's more room and simplicity that are the goals.
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sqlsavior
Lunatic Member
I can imagine being satisfied with an integrated amp that I picked out as a 'permanent solution' if it sounded as good as I remember my separates at their best, but my Luxman integrated did not give me that opportunity, after one power amp channel died (was killed, actually, in a case of Luxman on Luxman violence). Each section of the Luxman L-505u (phono preamp, preamp, and power amp) have been beaten by their separate counterparts. But a drastically reduced income in retirement is powerful incentive for making do, which in my case means using the Luxman's preamp section as a *separate* line stage. I can't escape them! 
If you play records, it can be hard to backslide in the phono preamp department. I'm glad I got the Fosgate fixed.
Your mention of a candidate I've never heard of (easy to do) prompts my suggestion to check out the Vinnie Rossi Lio integrated, but it was six years ago when I heard one at RMAF, driving a Harbeth Super HL5 Plus pair, and featuring a Single Giant Tube (my caps) line stage. He had a TVC option, too.
If you play records, it can be hard to backslide in the phono preamp department. I'm glad I got the Fosgate fixed.
Your mention of a candidate I've never heard of (easy to do) prompts my suggestion to check out the Vinnie Rossi Lio integrated, but it was six years ago when I heard one at RMAF, driving a Harbeth Super HL5 Plus pair, and featuring a Single Giant Tube (my caps) line stage. He had a TVC option, too.
Indeed it is, that's nothing short of a work or art from Kenwood. I like the way the preamp section is well away from any component that may interfere. Reminds me of Bryston, prooving that the Japanese gear could measure up to the very top of domestic (well, Canadian in the case of Bryston but that's close enough to be domestic) equipment.
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7whales7
Addicted Member
How about Both? Just saying. I have both. My Luxman R-117 does pretty good for a intergrated/ all in one... LOL. With separates you can swap things out like Preamps,
Tuners, Etc. Always liked the separates look. But I love a good vintage receiver also. I'm probably not helping... LOL.
Tuners, Etc. Always liked the separates look. But I love a good vintage receiver also. I'm probably not helping... LOL.
it's now the heart of the bedroom system
The change in the living rm saw the Kenwood KD-500 get replaced with the KD-770D, need to get The Rock in here to complete the setup.
So yes an integrated can be an outstanding piece of gear, and in some cases a preferred option, even without going full separates I'm most likely already taxing the WAF a good bit lol.
I say buy the best integrated amp you can afford from Accuphase or Luxman. If you decide you want to go back to separates just choose the corresponding amplifiers and use the integrated as a preamp. You would not be giving anything up to true a separates system. They don’t make compromised product. If you are at this point in the thinking process I doubt you will go back to separates once you make the change. Enjoy
Monster receivers are cool ,but usually the sweet spot in sound is the 40-80 watt range but not always ,it seems to be the best mix of sound and power, less may sound tube but lack sufficient power and headroom , more may lack detail and sound like a cheap pa amp again there are always exceptions especially with high end gear.correct, some folks claim that separates can sound better… That’s subjective. To many factors at play. I do understand that some folks just like having the gear displaying. Yes some separate systems can sound better, but that’s a general statement, some would say a monster receiver is the way to go….. sorry power does not always equate to good sound. My little clock radio is half a watt and it’s fantastic. So what’s right and what’s wrong?
Trust your earsLux and Accuphase build some quality gear. Luxman is known for some amazing integrated amps.
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I currently have 2 integrated amps out at the moment, an Optinica SM-7305 with some mods and an early National Panasonic. To my ears they sound better then Luxman and Accuphase and even McIntosh. That said I do love Luxman and Accuphase I’m just in a vintage kick so it’s what I have out, a year ago I had other gear in the rack, and I’m sure it will be changed again in a few months.
I’m a true believer in a quality integrated amp, I don’t run receivers any more, and some integrated amps double as amazing preamps too. So that’s something to keep in mind.
Please do post what you end up with. We also have a large music thread so it would be good to post about the SQ with some albums you are familiar with. Always good to read users experiences with new gear. Would love to know how it works out for ya. I’ll tag ya in the music thread.
Erik Tracy
Everyone's happy when the wizard walks by
Just tossing more stuff into the pot for consideration, but one thing to consider is price point.
I may be convinced that separates can edge out integrateds if cost is no object, but given a specific price point things to consider are with separates is that you're now incurring costs for two chassis, two power supplies (both non-recurring engineering and direct material costs), additional cost for interconnects and power cords, whereas for an integrated those costs *could be* used for better engineering design and/or better quality parts overall.
It'll always be a game of cost leap-frog and specific gear as to what is "better", but to me, a basic integrated is the sweet spot for design to cost/performance over separates.
just my deflated 2cents worth
I may be convinced that separates can edge out integrateds if cost is no object, but given a specific price point things to consider are with separates is that you're now incurring costs for two chassis, two power supplies (both non-recurring engineering and direct material costs), additional cost for interconnects and power cords, whereas for an integrated those costs *could be* used for better engineering design and/or better quality parts overall.
It'll always be a game of cost leap-frog and specific gear as to what is "better", but to me, a basic integrated is the sweet spot for design to cost/performance over separates.
just my deflated 2cents worth
agreed, most of my amps are in the 40-80w range, it’s all to subjective. But I agree with your statements on power, in my experience what you have said rings true to me. I have a few larger amps for larger speakers but most of the time I’m running amps in the 40-60watt range. I don’t have a massive room so I don’t really have a news to run big power, really just depends on how efficient of speakers I’m using.
well said and good post!
thanks recently picked up a carver hr772 140 wpc and a sta2290 100 wpc this year ,nice power , but much prefer my sta2080 at 80wpc Gave my son a kr5400 kenwood it also had a nice musical sound,
RemoWilliams
Addicted Member
I still use an Acurus L 10 pre amp with either the Acurus A 250 or BGW GTB but also enjoy using a Luxman L 480, NEC AUA 8300E and more modern Vincent SV 236 MK hybrid ( 150 W / Ch. ) - excellent sounding and is one of the more affordable integrated amplifiers that has had great reviews. More than a few have found it better than units priced at up 5000.00.
The SV 237 successor is supposedly better still but I find the SV 236 MK to be more than enough, especially with some vintage 12AX7 / ECC83 tubes in the pre amp section, I currently use early '60's Tungsram.
The SV 237 successor is supposedly better still but I find the SV 236 MK to be more than enough, especially with some vintage 12AX7 / ECC83 tubes in the pre amp section, I currently use early '60's Tungsram.
I used to own separate’s and moved to an integrated even though it can still be considered separates and is called a super integrated due to its separate power supplies, no Dac and high wattage. Mine is a hybrid that uses tubes in the preamp stage and SS amps.
I have had no desire to move back to separates after owning this integrated as its able to handle any speakers with headroom to spare and overall performance is excellent. It is the Musical Fidelity NuVista M3 and has been upgraded from the factory so not a stock M3.
I have heard the D’Agostino mono blocks and integrated as well as the Gryphon integrated personally I preferred the D’Agostino but both were excellent Imo. I would also take a close look at the Musical Fidelity NuVista 800 since you are looking for a new integrated.
Audiofreak71
I have had no desire to move back to separates after owning this integrated as its able to handle any speakers with headroom to spare and overall performance is excellent. It is the Musical Fidelity NuVista M3 and has been upgraded from the factory so not a stock M3.
I have heard the D’Agostino mono blocks and integrated as well as the Gryphon integrated personally I preferred the D’Agostino but both were excellent Imo. I would also take a close look at the Musical Fidelity NuVista 800 since you are looking for a new integrated.
Audiofreak71
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