• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Good article about resolution and megapixels

Thank you Jess,
For the eloquent reply. With respect to the OP I would like to invite further discussion in a new thread.

Todd
 
????

Are you trying to make my head explode?

both shot at:

F5/6
1/30
ISO100

Same file size and pixels.

Both blow up the same.

The one on the left is blown out. So I guess the one on the right gives the impression of sharpness? Maybe I should look into that thing where the Doc said I needed glasses.
 
The one on the left has less detail in the highs or white from the spot light.

Buy a MAC.
Drag image to desk top.
click on image.
Cloverleaf-"I" or Command button-"I".

Opens an information window on the file.

:smoke:
 
The difference in sharpness is infinitesimal or non-existent, as verified by cropping just the head on each shot and enlarging to full screen. However, 008-1, on the right has more JPEG artifacts, as can be seen in the sky just above the head. You may be viewing this as more detail, but it's false detail.
 
To get the enlarged view, I used Irfanview:
1) expand the Irfanview window to full screen
2) draw a rectangle aroung the head with the cursor and select Edit..Crop Selection
- now you have a still small image of the head
3) draw a selection box around the whole small head image
4) click inside the box with the cursor, which will be a magnifying glass
5) the image is enalarged to fit the window

This does not produce an enlarged file, so I can't post it. I will work on actually enlarging the files and post them in a few minutes - but you should learn how to use the crop and enlarge functions in your viewer so you can make these fine comparisons yourself.
 
Here are the enlarged versions

edit - sorry about slightlydifferent magnification - working in a hurry
 

Attachments

  • 007-5 crop enlarge.jpg
    007-5 crop enlarge.jpg
    60 KB · Views: 39
  • 008-1 crop enlarge.jpg
    008-1 crop enlarge.jpg
    60.5 KB · Views: 38
Several years ago I was shooting with a 5MP Sony, DSC-V1. I was out shooting landscapes, etc., near where I grew up. I got an incredible shot of several fencelines converging in front of a snowy field. After capturing the shot I realized I had the camera set at 3.1 MP. So, I adjusted back up to 5 MP, and shot the scene over again. Unfortunately, the second shot was just a hair off from the original, and I wound up preferring the first. When I printed these out (at 8x10), I kept the original, but I could definitely tell a difference in the two images. I was heartbroken, because I loved the image so much--but had to settle for a sub-par print. Oh well!

The point is, from 3.1 MP to 5 MP, printed on a HP Photosmart 8150, at 8x10", there was a noticeable difference in print quality. Ken Rockwell's point is well-taken, but he definitely sounds off... I wouldn't sweat the difference between a 10 MP and 12 MP camera, but there IS a difference. He sounds too much like a huckster himself to be taken seriously as he derides hucksters. To me, greater CCD resolution (all else being equal) simply buys a greater margin of error in image composition.

Here's the original picture:

DSC01432.jpg
[/IMG]
 
Last edited:
Megs - Schmegs - shrug ...

To look at the upper end of this argument/discussion - drop by the http://www.gigapxl.org/ I have seen these images printed at 8x10 feet with a magnifying glass in hand. You can read a license plate number at a mile. The images are just stunning. The work is great photography first and superior imaging second. But the imaging side is amazing.

I work with aerial photos all the time - mostly shot on 9x9 inch chrome. I load and zoom into 100~1000 Meg images and try to extract detail and engineering data. Cropping is sometimes the only way to isolate what needs to be studied. Cropping in camera or in the darkroom or software, makes no difference - it's getting to the meat of the message.

A lot of the time I have to shoot across canyons and gullies. I can't get there - period. I shoot a number of shots and crop as needed for the report I'm generating. The no crop rule is crap. It's just a tool. Use it as needed.

I still shoot a lot of sub-1 Meg images if that's all it needs to go into a word doc or up on thwe web or power point, what ever. Choose the rez you need for the end result. You need 50M image, shoot 2 1/4 or 4x5 and scan. You need a 6~10 MB image for a presentation screen - average digital is fine.

If we are only talking art shots - these discussions are valid. In the work-a-day engineering world, shoot as needed AND crop as needed if you can't frame the image perfectly :)

One of my favorite camera is an old Sony Mavica that records on floppy disks and at best quality is 0.4 MB. Still makes fine images that hold up as screen shots. And if "expanded" and desaturated, make good grainy art images.

The one attached has been downsized from 0.49 MB to fit AK's limit, but it's may still be interesting :scratch2: It's one of the old Mavica shots one day in Anza-Borrego Desert shot from Butts Pass road as the storm skirted us (or the alien craft shield disguised their presence?) :)
 

Attachments

  • X_039-36c.jpg
    X_039-36c.jpg
    125.7 KB · Views: 39
Last edited:
There is a myth, but Ken goes a little far. I am a digital imagist (retoucher, capture tech, photographer, etc). There is no way 0.3 MP can pass with a 4x6 print. I see artifacts with under 5 MP or so. I just pulled some stills from full-HD video (2 MP) and printed at 5x7. It looks "fine", but it's not tack sharp, which is what you want.

The biggest myth out there now is that more is always better. 14 MP in a point and shoot camera does not really help you any more than 7 MP does because those tiny lenses can't resolve enough for 14 MP. You may as well res-up the 7 MP image in Photoshop. There are probably exceptions, like perhaps the Canon G10.
 
I'm glad the megapixel wars are almost over. I think it's more a function of the skill of the photographer and the quality of the camera rather than it the # of pixels being used. Yes, more resolution may mean a sharper print but I've seen some magnificent 16 X 20 prints made from a mere 4 megapixel shot, from an excellent Canon DSLR. They many not pass the magnifier test but they sure look great and thoroughly professional when seen from a reasonable viewing distance. They are certainly as good as one could expect from film printed by most labs.

My 10 mp "bridge camera" does very very well. The only thing I can think of to make it better would be a larger sensor but that would increase the cost. Of course, it does have a manual mode which is awfully nice!

As for the cheap P&S cameras, well, they are no worse than most comparably priced P&S film cameras and quite often are better.
 
Last edited:
The one on the left has less detail in the highs or white from the spot light.

Buy a MAC.
Drag image to desk top.
click on image.
Cloverleaf-"I" or Command button-"I".

Opens an information window on the file.

:smoke:

Sweet, I have always wondered on other photo forums how people pulled that info up so easily. On my Vista pc I can drag to desktop as well and just right click and click on details.
 
I'm glad the megapixel wars are almost over. I think it's more a function of the skill of the photographer and the quality of the camera rather than it the # of pixels being used. Yes, more resolution may mean a sharper print but I've seen some magnificent 16 X 20 prints made from a mere 4 megapixel shot, from an excellent Canon DSLR. They many not pass the magnifier test but they sure look great and thoroughly professional when seen from a reasonable viewing distance. They are certainly as good as one could expect from film printed by most labs.

My 10 mp Canon "high-end" P&S does very very well. The only thing I can think of to make it better would be a larger sensor but that would increase the cost even more, and it's already expensive for a point-and-shoot. Of course, it does have that "manual mode" which is awfully nice!

As for the cheap P&S cameras, well, they are no worse than most comparably priced P&S film cameras and quite often are far better.

I think you're right. It seems that some of the big guns are actually getting smaller or staying the same as far as pixels. My XSi has 12 and the T1i has 15 and some people think it is a bit noisier than the XSi, though I haven't heard as much said about the T2i. I just think that eventually they will settle on a number and hopefully be done with it, or eventually the small sensors will go away and they will all be full frame 35 mm sensors, even though some of the big guns are smaller APS-C like the rebels or APS-H which I believe is similar.

They all take great pictures, and like you said even the better end PnS cameras can take excellent images. Even my old 2.1 Kodak from years ago could take really nice images. I think we are at a point that the cameras take better pictures than we can output, whether it is on screen, which really is pretty crappy, or even most printers. I hope that a lot more research is put into the output end in the near future.

Also true, it is mainly the function of the photographer to take the images. I've seen great pictures taken on a lowly Pentax K-1000 in the past, just like there are some incredible shots from simple PnS digitals. It seems like these days, every article is about how the photographer used this camera and this lens and this photoshop or post process to make the image.

Some of my favorite images in my files are from an old Beauty range finder I picked up at a garage sale for a few bucks. The lens tended to saturate the film and by todays standards wouldn't be called sharp whatsoever, but the images of my daughter are beautiful. Hopefully someday we, I included can get back to just taking pictures again.

I used to love reading articles in the past where the photographer simply said, I went out on a beautiful fall morning and saw this group of Geese and had to follow them to the lake and this is what came of it.

Don't get me wrong, I like technology as well, though as a footnote rather than a whole note. Sometimes it feels like technology is the point of the hobby, rather than the art itself.

Heck, after all this blathering on, I think I'll go grab a roll of film and run it through that old Beauty again. For old times sake.
 
Plus, if you feel like buying a new digital camera, you're gonna be hard-pressed to find anything with less than 6 or 7 megapixels.

Unless it's a phone, and the 1.2 megapixel camera in my phone takes pics that make the old polaroids look hi-res.
 
I think now that more important factor about megapixels is the type of sensor the camera uses. Is it backlit, is it a CMOS, is it CCD? I think these are more important now than the number of pixels since all are at least over 10.
 
My 2.2c inc. GST worth - Ken's on the money. Far more important than the number of megapixels is DR and noise performance. There's no need for more than 10mp imho. It's just marketing crap to sucker people into buying new gear. And people are silly enough to fall for it. I've been quite negative about Canon's approach for some time now, and much prefer Nikons approach with the D3s.

If megapixels are so important, how did all those pros manager with the Nikon D1, or the Canon EOS 1D? mmm? I don't buy the cropping crap either. That's just cheapness on not going out and either getting the right lens for the job, or not using those 2 funny things called feet to move off your ass and get to the right spot with your current gear.

I've been into photography now for 20+ years, and into digital for a good near Six years. I can't believe people believe the marketing BS that these companies throw out.

Dave
 
A lot of factors determine how good an image a digital camera produces. And mega pixels is not the most important one. The sensor, noise reduction and processing program determines the final output. My Olympus E-300 has a 8 mgp sensor and with the right lens can produce great images. It may not have a lot of the bells and whistles some of the newer cameras have but it is still a viable camera and I will never get rid of it.
I have been into photography for many years and into digital photography since it 1st started being available to consumers, which is well over 10 years. I have seen a lot of improvements in those years and I don't know what more can be done now to make the cameras any better than they currently are.
 
A lot of factors determine how good an image a digital camera produces. And mega pixels is not the most important one.
.....ChillWolf, the "noticed difference" using a larger sensor panel over a smaller sensor panel, should be about the same noticed difference we saw using a medium format negative over a 35mm negative back in film days....no?....remember how those medium format prints came to life with realism?.....

.....here's what I'm beginning to feel about this hobby....the lens, (hopefully fast), the sensor panel, the mega-pixels, the dynamic range, the noise reduction, and the processing programs and chips, all must work together for success, but all can have their hands tied immediately by camera shake.....
 
.....ChillWolf, the "noticed difference" using a larger sensor panel over a smaller sensor panel, should be about the same noticed difference we saw using a medium format negative over a 35mm negative back in film days....no?....remember how those medium format prints came to life with realism?.....

.....here's what I'm beginning to feel about this hobby....the lens, (hopefully fast), the sensor panel, the mega-pixels, the dynamic range, the noise reduction, and the processing programs and chips, all must work together for success, but all can have their hands tied immediately by camera shake.....

Which is why the tripod is the best accessory and (for me) the best piece of gear you can use. I guess it comes from using medium and large format cameras for years.
 
Which is why the tripod is the best accessory and (for me) the best piece of gear you can use. I guess it comes from using medium and large format cameras for years.
.....the monopod with swivel head will be here in about three days, Jess....I think it will be like the camera suddenly weighs nothing and pretty much "can't" shake....what could be wrong with that when the camera body, lens, and flash can weigh six pounds?....the swivel head will hopefully allow verticals by sliding the camera body 90 degrees on the head pad....I should have ordered one years ago.....
 
Last edited:
Ronnie, monopods are a good alternative to the tripod. I have a Gitzo but you still have to be careful with side to side and to and fro motion since you lack the solid support of the the other two legs. I can't remember the last time I even used the monopod. It is more convenient to carry around but for what I shoot, three legs work better for me than one.
 
Back
Top Bottom