Grado gold ....

[brianjrealto]

I just put a new grado gold cartridge on a sanyo tp-825d turntable...I also now use a Bren1 clamp to help sound resolution.

I used the garrott brothers protractor for aligning it. Made sure i had the correct 90' angles for the fit of the cartridge in the headshell on all 3 sides.

Everything seems to be lined up great, maticulously...

Ive read that grados need many hours of break-in period. What is the sound difference from first installation till it really opens up in sound?

I listen to this through the headphones, and it seems like the grado is a bit "harsh" in sound quality, not natural sounding as of yet.

Maybe i need a different protractor to align it for better results. The vocals
sound good, but the symbals of drums sound a bit harsh. Bass seems tight

 

[Dr Tinear]

My Grado Green sounded good from the get-go -- no break-in needed. It does have the Longhorn bar advocated by Frank Van Alstine, which I strongly recommend as a way to get the best possible sound out of any Grado Prestige cartridge. Search the AK Turntables forum for information on the mod, or go to http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=181, download the 1982 Audio Basics back issue .pdf, and read the directions that start on page 8. It's an inexpensive do-it-yourself project that really works. (Disclaimer: my only business relationship with Audio by Van Alstine is that of a satisfied repeat customer.)

My Longhorn Grado is currently installed on a Technics turntable. I found that using the Technics alignment gauge, which uses an alignment closer to Stevenson than Baerwald, gave me the best sound. You might try a Stevenson protractor and see if it makes a difference in your installation.

 

[hesson11]

Perhaps it's because I focus more on the music than on changes in sound quality, but I never noticed any significant change with break-in of a Grado cartridge. Your comments about it sounding harsh are very odd, though. Harsh is the last word I'd use to characterize a Grado. I'm not even sure whether a bad alignment could induce harshness in a Grado.
-Bob

 

[Dr Tinear]

The harshness could be a turntable issue, possibly caused by bearing play in the tonearm. There's an interesting writeup in Frank Van Alstine's 1982 Audio Basics back issue set that describes a similar situation. Here's the relevant paragraph:

I stopped by a high end audio salon in St. Louis recently with a Longhorn modified Grado cartridge (the one we sell for $125). I made an interesting request – I asked them what was the worst turntable and arm they had in the place – one so bad they were embarrassed to sell it. They referred me to one NAD model that they claimed was so harsh they couldn’t sell it. I mounted the Longhorn Grado in it. You should have been there! It then outplayed everything in the shop, it was so amazing that the two owners started laughing, they couldn’t believe it. We were getting more musical highs, better dynamic range, better balance, cleaner bass, better imaging, and just plain much more musical sound from the little NAD turntable and the Longhorn Grado into a cheap NAD receiver and B&W DM10’s than they could get out of their very most expensive systems. The difference wasn’t subtle – it was obvious. Needless to say they bought my sample Longhorn Grado on the spot and ordered more. I left the owners feeling more optimistic about their ability to deliver quality sound then they had felt in two years.

The $125 cartridge price is no longer current, but the other information in the paragraph still applies. If my experience with the Longhorn is typical, the improvements that Frank describes are absolutely real.

 

[marcmorin]

chiming in here as well regarding harsh cymbals etc from a grado cart. It generally is an issue that the cart is telling on as others have pointed out. The cart is (stylus assembly) underdamped for a reason. If there is an issue with the arm bearings either in the horizontal or vertical movement, the Grado will tell on that in a hurry. It will also tell you in a hurry that tracking force or antiskate is set wrong. Try various alignments to see what give the best presentation across the album. But for tracing the high frequency, rapid transient attack of the snare or cymbals try setting your downforce at 1.65gr. and little to no antiskate. The Longhorn modification can and does address some issues with the vertical arm bearings by adding (torsional)mass below and outside of the bearing travel.

 

[brianjrealto]

chiming in here as well regarding harsh cymbals etc from a grado cart. It generally is an issue that the cart is telling on as others have pointed out. The cart is (stylus assembly) underdamped for a reason. If there is an issue with the arm bearings either in the horizontal or vertical movement, the Grado will tell on that in a hurry. It will also tell you in a hurry that tracking force or antiskate is set wrong. Try various alignments to see what give the best presentation across the album. But for tracing the high frequency, rapid transient attack of the snare or cymbals try setting your downforce at 1.65gr. and little to no antiskate. The Longhorn modification can and does address some issues with the vertical arm bearings by adding (torsional)mass below and outside of the bearing travel.

I tried that last night, setting the DTF to 1.65g instead of 1.5grams. Afterwards, i played around with the antiskate settings, listening while trying different aintiskate between 0 and 1.5. The best setting for "sound" was at about .75 antiskate.

It does sound alot better now. I will try again this weekend on the protractor and ensure it is 100% aligned right. I am maticulous anyway and spent 2 hours just on the alignment alone, so spending the time to get it right won't be out the ordinary.

the Garrott Brothers protractor I use is identical to the Stevenson model.

What I really want is the Dynavector 10x5 cartridge, but that's a whole nother story. (it also looks like a pain to align that style of cartridge)..

 

[brianjrealto]

chiming in here as well regarding harsh cymbals etc from a grado cart. It generally is an issue that the cart is telling on as others have pointed out. The cart is (stylus assembly) underdamped for a reason. If there is an issue with the arm bearings either in the horizontal or vertical movement, the Grado will tell on that in a hurry. It will also tell you in a hurry that tracking force or antiskate is set wrong. Try various alignments to see what give the best presentation across the album. But for tracing the high frequency, rapid transient attack of the snare or cymbals try setting your downforce at 1.65gr. and little to no antiskate. The Longhorn modification can and does address some issues with the vertical arm bearings by adding (torsional)mass below and outside of the bearing travel.

has anyone tried the Plast-i-clay stuff between the styli and the cartridge? the article referenced in this thread by the "van" guy suggested it on some cartridges, but not the Grado's.

 

[Dr Tinear]

has anyone tried the Plast-i-clay stuff between the styli and the cartridge? the article referenced in this thread by the "van" guy suggested it on some cartridges, but not the Grado's.

Grado already uses damping material -- a black, tar-like substance -- where the stylus meets the coils, so Plast-i-clay probably won't help and might do some damage. I personally wouldn't try it.

 

[HypnoToad]

Grado's are fussy to setup at times, it took a while to get my Grado Gold setup correctly. And don't forget the pins on the back are wired differently to other carts.

 

[tube-a-lou]

I've been using Grado's a long time and there a great sounding Cartridge give it
time it will get better.

Tube

 

[marcmorin]

has anyone tried the Plast-i-clay stuff between the styli and the cartridge? the article referenced in this thread by the "van" guy suggested it on some cartridges, but not the Grado's.

I add a little material to the stylus assembly, but not plasti-clay. and I also (usually) pot the coils in the line of Grado carts I have that allow for that.

 

[marcmorin]

I just put a new grado gold cartridge on a sanyo tp-825d turntable...I also now use a Bren1 clamp to help sound resolution.

Just a quick question about this table/arm. Does the tonearm have a lateral balance weight?

 

[brianjrealto]

Just a quick question about this table/arm. Does the tonearm have a lateral balance weight?

good question...it does have a small adjustable weight to the left of the tonearm where the tonearm sits on the tonearm housing..

it can be loosen to be either slid to the right or left. not much room right or left.

but what are you thinking I need to do with that weight to improve sound quality? How do i make sure I have the correct setting either more left or more right??

 

[marcmorin]

good question...it does have a small adjustable weight to the left of the tonearm where the tonearm sits on the tonearm housing..

it can be loosen to be either slid to the right or left. not much room right or left.

but what are you thinking I need to do with that weight to improve sound quality? How do i make sure I have the correct setting either more left or more right??

Yes that needs to be adjusted......as that is a lateral balance. if the lateral balance is off the arm intertia side to side is off. You may be trying to correct that with antiskate. As it is similar to antiskate in its function.

Here's how to do that. install the stylus guard. zero float the arm, set antiskate to zero. set the opposite side of the table up roughly 23 degrees (rough offset number of your tonearm) if the arm want to climb towards the spindle, adjust that side weight until it just wants to move a little towards the rest, or wants to stay where you put it. Put the table back level and reset your tracking weight to 1.65, antiskate at zero and go from there. If you have the first Dire Staights album (in the gallery) is a great song to set the antiskate by. I can walk you through that as well.

Marc

 

[geode]

Grado already uses damping material -- a black, tar-like substance -- where the stylus meets the coils, so Plast-i-clay probably won't help and might do some damage. I personally wouldn't try it.

I'm not sure they still use the black goop anymore. I recently bought a new Grado Black and ithere is no goop. Check out the photos from Grado...no visible goop. May be someone else can confirm.

http://www.gradolabs.com/page_cartridges.php?item=67e579b4d599785184db2f07f46fec27

 

[marcmorin]

I'm not sure they still use the black goop anymore. I recently bought a new Grado Black and ithere is no goop. Check out the photos from Grado...no visible goop. May be someone else can confirm.

All of mine do, some more than others. My G1 is so full of it you only see the pole pieces at the ends of the coils. Others have it only in the middle between the coils. There should be a slight amount at the top of the stylus cavity. Grado alsao uses a "silicone type" material further in the coil cavity that is hard to see that anchors the coils to the metal coil cover.

 

[geode]

All of mine do, some more than others. My G1 is so full of it you only see the pole pieces at the ends of the coils. Others have it only in the middle between the coils. There should be a slight amount at the top of the stylus cavity. Grado alsao uses a "silicone type" material further in the coil cavity that is hard to see that anchors the coils to the metal coil cover.

I know they used it in the past. Are yours brand-new. My old Grado Black had it, the new one doesn't.

 

[geode]

I know they used it in the past. Are yours brand-new. My old Grado Black had it, the new one doesn't.

Interesting! From Grado on the Black and Green "The elliptical diamond stylus is fixed to a brass bush at one end of the three-piece cantilever based on Gradoís patented OTL (Optimized Transmission Line) principle. This consists of three sections telescoped together, using a mixture of alloys and hollow or solid construction, bonded by damping materials and coated with a black material providing further resonance absorption."

But mine doesn't have it and it doesn't show in the photos.

 

[brianjrealto]

Yes that needs to be adjusted......as that is a lateral balance. if the lateral balance is off the arm intertia side to side is off. You may be trying to correct that with antiskate. As it is similar to antiskate in its function.

Here's how to do that. install the stylus guard. zero float the arm, set antiskate to zero. set the opposite side of the table up roughly 23 degrees (rough offset number of your tonearm) if the arm want to climb towards the spindle, adjust that side weight until it just wants to move a little towards the rest, or wants to stay where you put it. Put the table back level and reset your tracking weight to 1.65, antiskate at zero and go from there. If you have the first Dire Staights album (in the gallery) is a great song to set the antiskate by. I can walk you through that as well.

Marc

Marc,

Problem solved! The lateral balance adjustment was the last piece to the puzzle. The Grado Gold sounds really good now!

Followed the steps to adjust the lateral weight for proper balance. Then set DTF for 1.65g

Actually, I am shocked at how much that lateral weight adjustment made a difference in sound from before. Considering that from it's original position, I moved it maybe a 1/8" left. Bass is now deeper, more pronounced. Less harsh on the highs and drum symbols...

The antiskate setting now is about the same setting as before for best sound.

It sounds great now, can only imagine what the sound difference will be when I change out the original RCA cable to the Petra's I bought on Amazon for cheap!

 

[marcmorin]

I know they used it in the past. Are yours brand-new. My old Grado Black had it, the new one doesn't.

Actually I don't own any, anymore that are from the prestiege line. I did own a Gold that I sold to another person from a different forum. My newest Grado is a Sonata-1. The others are various older carts from the G-1 to Z2 to Signature 8, Signature 8MZ, Signature MCZ, and then some "Frankengrados" of mixed/matched parts.