tyeeslayer
Super Member
I notice you have (or had) a PF-800. how would you judge the differences between the PF-800 and GT 2000L? Did you find the same problems using a MM cart on the 800?
GT-2000 Tonearm Question
- Thread starter Florida Spin
- Start date
jblnut
Don't Overthink It
The two are not really comparable except that they are both turntables. Belt vs DD, spring suspension vs solid mounting, twin pipe tonearm etc. The PF is a nice table at its price point and is well worth seeking out, but it is not in the same performance category as the GT. I no longer have my PF and only ran an MC on it when I did.
jblnut
jblnut
Florida Spin
New Member
Deleted
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Florida Spin
New Member
I really love the PF-800. I originally purchased it to replace a VPI Scout 1.1 because I was moving in with a woman with kids and the stylus just looks oh so fascinating.
The PF-800 I purchased, I do not believe was ever used. All original packaging, no tool marks on the fasteners or adjustment screws, no scratches or scuffs and 2 weeks of steady sonic improvement that could only have been burn in. It still had the spare belt in the mylar package.
Anyhow to answer your question, there are no negative issues with the 2M Black MM. Its sound is detailed, airy, buttery, rich and deep. Both the PF-800 and the GT-2000L bring noticeably deeper bass to the party than the VPI Scout 1.1.
Until just recently I have been toying with the idea of selling the GT-2000 and keeping the PF-800. It has been a long slog to work up the GT-2000 and to be honest the stereo separation and imaging of the PF-800 is very very good. It can produce a really wide soundstage. The PF-800 is a musically engaging turntable, just really enjoyable. I preferred it to the Scout.
I'm still evaluating the GT-2000, which did not come in factory fresh condition and immediately went to war with my preferred cartridge. I'll spend some quality time with the GT-2000 and put it through it's paces.
Assuming the GT-2000 performs as expected, I will be reluctantly parting with the PF-800.
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Florida Spin
New Member
I know that but like I said it was a Sunday morning and I was already sick of screwing around with the table. I really didn't want to alter the look any more than necessary.
tyeeslayer
Super Member
Thanks for all the detail. I have a PF-1000 w/ original cart, and always wondered how the 2000 stacked up. No I know.
P.S. I love my PF-1000
Florida Spin
New Member
Alrighty then; the ten day update. I’ll start with the conclusion. Audio nirvana.
After removing the tone arm core and discovering I did not have enough effective mass anymore, I went about replacing what was lost. I got rid of the solder weights and recreated the copper rod system. The net result was a very precise, very dead sound.
The 2m Black has always been happiest on 10-11 gram arms (less cartridge). So if the YSA1 has a mass of 22 with cartridge (assuming 5 grams) that leaves the arm at 17 grams. As a result I removed the copper rods and started reducing the weight. In the end I found the sweet spot was a mere 1.25 grams toward the the head shell end.
I cut one rod into 5mm sections that added up to 1.25 grams. I ran some dental floss into a small heat shrink, leaving 6 inches excess on each end. Then I stuffed the copper sections into the tube and shrunk it. It now looked like blue sausage links. I did this because I was tired of taking the head shell off the straight arm and having to check everything over and over. I then pushed my copper sausage weight up into the arm and trimmed the floss. Should I need to remove it, it’s easy. I stuffed some cotton up there and viola. The resonant frequency of the cartridge and arm is 10hz.
I was listening to the same test records over and over. They sounded great but I was so sick of it. So I started pulling out other albums. Still sounded amazing but I was kind of tired with playing records.
A few days later I had some people over for cocktails. One of the attendees is a woman that is pretty annoying- nice but annoying. She always insists on Fleetwood Mac “Rumors”, an album that I really don’t much like. My issue of it is muddy and awful- a complete waste of money. She can't tell it sounds like crap, so I put it on and went about the business of mixing drinks in the kitchen and I hear her tell everyone to shut up. I came out to see what the fuss was and she looked up and asked when I got new speakers. She said the music sounded fantastic, she’d never heard it like this. I plopped down on the couch and Holy Moly!!! There it was, clean detailed, and dynamic.
Since then I’ve been feeding the GT-2000 a diet of LP’s on my do not play list. Where it shines the best is on remasters that were bass heavy and lacking detail. I have a Neil Young "Harvest" that fits that bill, couldn’t stand to play it. The improvement is huge. Somehow, this thing is digging up details that nothing else can pick up. Maybe it's because I was able to adjust the effective mass and match it to the cartridge.
On albums that were well recorded, mastered and pressed, the GT-2000 just gets out of the way. My speakers disappear and I’m in a room that is not my room. It’s a small dead room, or it’s a large deep room, it’s amazing, I have never heard anything like it. The effect is eerie.
Needless to say, I’m keeping it. The PF-800 will be up for sale shortly.
After removing the tone arm core and discovering I did not have enough effective mass anymore, I went about replacing what was lost. I got rid of the solder weights and recreated the copper rod system. The net result was a very precise, very dead sound.
The 2m Black has always been happiest on 10-11 gram arms (less cartridge). So if the YSA1 has a mass of 22 with cartridge (assuming 5 grams) that leaves the arm at 17 grams. As a result I removed the copper rods and started reducing the weight. In the end I found the sweet spot was a mere 1.25 grams toward the the head shell end.
I cut one rod into 5mm sections that added up to 1.25 grams. I ran some dental floss into a small heat shrink, leaving 6 inches excess on each end. Then I stuffed the copper sections into the tube and shrunk it. It now looked like blue sausage links. I did this because I was tired of taking the head shell off the straight arm and having to check everything over and over. I then pushed my copper sausage weight up into the arm and trimmed the floss. Should I need to remove it, it’s easy. I stuffed some cotton up there and viola. The resonant frequency of the cartridge and arm is 10hz.
I was listening to the same test records over and over. They sounded great but I was so sick of it. So I started pulling out other albums. Still sounded amazing but I was kind of tired with playing records.
A few days later I had some people over for cocktails. One of the attendees is a woman that is pretty annoying- nice but annoying. She always insists on Fleetwood Mac “Rumors”, an album that I really don’t much like. My issue of it is muddy and awful- a complete waste of money. She can't tell it sounds like crap, so I put it on and went about the business of mixing drinks in the kitchen and I hear her tell everyone to shut up. I came out to see what the fuss was and she looked up and asked when I got new speakers. She said the music sounded fantastic, she’d never heard it like this. I plopped down on the couch and Holy Moly!!! There it was, clean detailed, and dynamic.
Since then I’ve been feeding the GT-2000 a diet of LP’s on my do not play list. Where it shines the best is on remasters that were bass heavy and lacking detail. I have a Neil Young "Harvest" that fits that bill, couldn’t stand to play it. The improvement is huge. Somehow, this thing is digging up details that nothing else can pick up. Maybe it's because I was able to adjust the effective mass and match it to the cartridge.
On albums that were well recorded, mastered and pressed, the GT-2000 just gets out of the way. My speakers disappear and I’m in a room that is not my room. It’s a small dead room, or it’s a large deep room, it’s amazing, I have never heard anything like it. The effect is eerie.
Needless to say, I’m keeping it. The PF-800 will be up for sale shortly.
Another happy GT owner! 
I've been in love with the GT 2000 for the last 8 years and don't need any convincing that it is a mighty capable turntable, but given the reinforcement of those others who have been brave enough to take the same plunge and reading their enthusiasm for them, I'm coming to the conclusion that it is one of the best vintage turntables ever made. If there is any component which underlines the absolute importance of the Source component as the ultimate limiting factor to system capability, the GT 2000 clearly closes the argument.
I will say once again, without apologies, that the stock GT 2000 sound is just the jumping-off point. There is so much more to be gained from this turntable(and I am sure that this applies to other non-suspended Ultra Direct Drives and Belt Drives) via dedicated isolation. The thing is that the GT 2000 is so damn good that it responds incredibly to this approach. If I keep banging away on the same drum, it is only because I know what I am hearing. Whether anyone cares to travel this road or not is up to them. I have to say that when properly implemented, Isolation finally reveals just how amazing these turntables actually are. I've said my bit on that now.
I will say once again, without apologies, that the stock GT 2000 sound is just the jumping-off point. There is so much more to be gained from this turntable(and I am sure that this applies to other non-suspended Ultra Direct Drives and Belt Drives) via dedicated isolation. The thing is that the GT 2000 is so damn good that it responds incredibly to this approach. If I keep banging away on the same drum, it is only because I know what I am hearing. Whether anyone cares to travel this road or not is up to them. I have to say that when properly implemented, Isolation finally reveals just how amazing these turntables actually are. I've said my bit on that now.
Florida Spin
New Member
Theo, you are a crazy man. I've been watching your isolation project for a while. I love a good obsession!!
I noticed your earlier musing with regard to wire transferred vibration. I can highly recommend the KAB SuperFlex Tonearm Wire.
The stuff is so limp it is difficult to work with because it just flops over- like over-cooked angel hair pasta. It sounds great as well.
I believe you have the same straight arm that I do. I have a continuous run from my cartridge to an RCA adapter block I mounted on the back of the unit.
If you think you can avoid EMF contamination, you could theoretically run that wire to your phono stage. I did it for a short time just for troubleshooting purposes and had no ill effects. There's only one way to find out. I ran mine in copper braids, left and right, just to be on the safe side.
If you have the external power supply, can you remove the main power cord? I would do that for sure.
To get a more supple DC supply cable I would look at high end auto audio speaker cables. They can be amazingly soft and light at heavier gages.
I noticed your earlier musing with regard to wire transferred vibration. I can highly recommend the KAB SuperFlex Tonearm Wire.
The stuff is so limp it is difficult to work with because it just flops over- like over-cooked angel hair pasta. It sounds great as well.
I believe you have the same straight arm that I do. I have a continuous run from my cartridge to an RCA adapter block I mounted on the back of the unit.
If you think you can avoid EMF contamination, you could theoretically run that wire to your phono stage. I did it for a short time just for troubleshooting purposes and had no ill effects. There's only one way to find out. I ran mine in copper braids, left and right, just to be on the safe side.
If you have the external power supply, can you remove the main power cord? I would do that for sure.
To get a more supple DC supply cable I would look at high end auto audio speaker cables. They can be amazingly soft and light at heavier gages.
Thanks for the suggestion of the KAB wire. I've been loathe to actually remove the captive power cord. If I'm ever going to do something like that, or my Ultimate Plan to replinth a GT 2000, I'll buy a GT 2000 from Japan with a trashed plinth.
jblnut
Don't Overthink It
Related story...
I had an old friend over to listen to my system earlier this year. He was contemplating getting back into vinyl having sold his LP12 back in the 80s when CD came on the scene. We spent hours listening to the GT-2000, Vpi Classic and SACD's on the Sony XA5400ES. We did a lot of 3-way comparisons where I have both the SACD and multiple copies of the album. At the end he thanked me for saving him thousands and he went out and bought an SACD player. He figured with the media being similar (nice 180g reprints of classic LPs versus SACD) he could get 95-98% of the sound of a $5k vinyl rig (cart+table+pre) for about $1k.
I didn't argue...vinyl is a pain in the ass and getting that last few percent can be a frustrating journey....
jblnut
I had an old friend over to listen to my system earlier this year. He was contemplating getting back into vinyl having sold his LP12 back in the 80s when CD came on the scene. We spent hours listening to the GT-2000, Vpi Classic and SACD's on the Sony XA5400ES. We did a lot of 3-way comparisons where I have both the SACD and multiple copies of the album. At the end he thanked me for saving him thousands and he went out and bought an SACD player. He figured with the media being similar (nice 180g reprints of classic LPs versus SACD) he could get 95-98% of the sound of a $5k vinyl rig (cart+table+pre) for about $1k.
I didn't argue...vinyl is a pain in the ass and getting that last few percent can be a frustrating journey....
jblnut
I've said many times that my success with isolating the GT 2000 has been an ear opener but a royal pain in the arse. I too have experimented with SACD and DVD-A. I'm on my third Universal player that can play SACD mainly because I want a Blu-Ray capable video playback machine that can play my SACDs. The isolated GT 2000 beats all the other formats including 192KHz DVD-A. They aren't 98% of it. They are 75% approx. They sound nice but the GT 2000 sounds visceral. It puts the meat on the bones. I haven't even used my Soundsmith Strain Gauge cartridge. It is said to be a game changer for vinyl playback. I'd love to hear it on this deck but I have to alter the YSA-1 headshell. I should just do it and be done with it.
Meridian's MQA will change everything. Music recorded and played back using MQA is reputed to sound better than any existent or current mastertape. That would be worth hearing.
Meridian's MQA will change everything. Music recorded and played back using MQA is reputed to sound better than any existent or current mastertape. That would be worth hearing.
Florida Spin
New Member
I don't understand how you can have a Soundsmith Strain Gauge floating around and not drill that headshell out. I just read the words "Strain Gauge" and went straight for my drill. I haven't posted any pictures of my tone arm because I drilled it. I'm embarrassed to admit it but none of my cartridges allow bottom up fixing so............ zip, zip.
I guess I remain hopeful that I can acquire another headshell for the YSA-1. I really don't want to alter the only YSA-1 headshell I have. I've mused about getting another YSA-1 headshell milled or 3D fabricated in metal.
Since the Soundsmith Strain Gauge cartridge is in my possession and isn't going anywhere soon, that is why I am not overly frantic about getting it mounted. I will hear it one day or other. I'm not in any rush. From what I've read about it, I'm sure that I'll love it. Maybe even be bowled over by it.
Florida Spin
New Member
I will attach photos of my alterations. I guess it's only fair.
Florida Spin
New Member
This is what I did to mine. As I said, I was a bit shy of admitting I drilled the head shell but I can't unmake that omelette and I would do it again, mostly because the stylus on this cartridge is off zero by at least 3 degrees and I need to twist the cartridge in the head shell. At any rate, I can't undrill it now and the sound is devine.
