• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Handmade in Japan LCR RIAA Phono Tube Pre Amplifier & 12AT7 Kind of Valves

kurorin

New Member
I´m starting this thread to share my experience about two topics:

1. A new valve RIAA Phono Pre Amplifier, working on LCR technology that we will explain.

2. Alternative valves for the popular 12AT7 that brought me a new sound (and aesthetic surprise).


52173995375_2184e68e36_b.jpg


Disclaimer: Im writing this post as a user not like a professional. Please check your circuit design before changing any valve or to handle the valve amplifier. Thanks for your opinions and new knowledge. Sorry about mistakes, english is not my original language.


This Phono Pre Amplifier is a special machine because it makes the RIAA equalization passively, with transformers. This old technology is original from Western Electric in the 1930s. LCR is refered about the triad of: transformers, capacitors and resistors. At present, what we almost just have is CR-type RIAA equalization, that is, only capacitors and resistors, having eliminated transformers. Of course there are more LCR RIAAs outside, just no easy to find and very expensive. Why were they removed? For the same reason that tubes DHT + transformer technology was largely lost in amplification: cost, efficiency, effectiveness, ease of implementation, lowering the weight of the equipment and the need to gain more and more power with a good sound. Almost pure advantages… except that along the way something was lost in the presentation of the sound: the even harmonics, among the most important.

The use of Noise Feedback NFB is used especially in topologies that are not Single Ended Triode, SET (that is, 99.99% of the amplifiers or perhaps more), specially to handle distortion. As a negative externality it cancels the even harmonics that, according to psychoacoustic studies, they are the most attractive to the human ear. Perhaps that is why it is so seductive for many to listen to a well-implemented SET: we are hearing the even harmonics that accompany the Fundamental of the sound, perhaps for the very first time, as in "Reality", and even with increased gain (what is called “distortion” of the SETs). A DHT triode has the most linear behavior and can work with no or very low NFB. It was the first form of electronic amplification invented by man and is already 100 years old.

Making a CR phono preamplifier is easy: all components fit on one board, which is also cheap and easy to implement. From there it is possible to improve to more complex machines, but always CR, it means without transformers. Output transformers are the key to tube equipment in general; they galvanically isolate, clean and modulate the audio signal that is built by the amplifier. The speaker cables connect directly to the output transformers, which in turn are physically isolated from the rest of the equipment; only electrons pass through the air, obviously as electromagnetism. It is a phenomenon that happens only with transformers and the sound depends on the transformers (McIntosh is a company that even in solid state amplification continues to use transformers for its sound, without the need to do it electronically, although they are more "basic" transformers because they do not fulfill the same function as with the tubes). So, the point is: the quality of transformers makes the final sound quality (not only but you already understand). And there is a lot of difference in quality. For example, at a technical level, many japanese transformers (Tango, Tamura and others) can deliver between 20Hz and 80,000KHz, or even more (10Hz-90,000KHz). Awesome! This in itself doesn't say what the amp sounds like but it does show the technical expertise of the finish. Check out how far the other common audio transformers can go, but let's face it if they get to half of this it's already a feat. Each one has its particular sound. In my opinion I prefer Tango and Tamura second, there are other very good ones like Noguchi (cheaper but very good for audio, only possible to buy them in Akihabara traditionally, now in GTrans). ISO and Hatt are new and I have good recommendations, but I haven't listened to them. Some Hashimoto and some Luxman have also been very good, according to those who know, although I have heard very few and those have not been my favorites.

We are going to make it clear that LCR does not necessarily mean that it is tubes; there are some LCR that are also transistorized or that can be, although it is mostly associated with tubes by its very nature and genesis.

Since much of this knowledge has been lost in western world, it was the japanese who mostly rescued and maintained it. Today some manufacturers make LCR but they are usually very expensive. It is said that very few in the world can successfully make this system, well implemented for HiFi and outperform a CR design; if it doesn't sound better there is no point in wasting time on something so complicated and expensive. In addition, it is not easy to get the transformers (they are two different from each other per channel). And as I have heard the Japanese say: the price of an amplifier is the price of its transformers. Maybe cruel.

One of the keys of the LCR circuit is the low output impedance, set at 600 ohms, which allows the tubes to work at their best performance. This technology has many difficulties associated mainly with the enormous amplification that must be made from the negligible voltage of a cartridge: if a line source (such as a CD Player) delivers 2V to the amplifier, a phono preamplifier must raise from 2mV with an MM capsule (and a MC from about 0.2 mV), that is, we multiply by a thousand! So along with raising the signal from the capsule, it amplifies any other parasitic noise nearby, which in tubes is very easy to have as associated contamination. That is why the difficulty and the need for experience and knowledge of those who manufacture it. And since very few manufacturers do it, prices easily skyrocket, as HiFi usually is, otherwise.

In particular, this is my first Phono LCR although I have heard others excellent ones, first class. The best of the best phono preamps I've ever heard (and often hear because it's from an excellent friend) is a model Western Electric type RA1474 LCR made by Master Shindo ("shindou laboratory"). It's just MC albeit broad spectrum. Through several years it has always been the best of all, by a long shot, but at the moment there is a model of Master Kanno that is waiting to be listen, and if it is Master Kanno… it really shows promise.




This "RIAA amplifier" as its designer calls it, I ordered it to pair with my tube 45-2A3 amplifier. Since the amp was named Porco Rosso by me, the RIAA was renamed the Porco Rosso RIAA LCR, very originally. I've tried and listened to many phono preamps over the years, but none that I could afford really satisfied me. After almost a decade I decided to go back to Master Mizuhima San and ask him to make one for me. It wasn't easy because - as all serious amp designers say - a new design takes at least three years to be completely finished. Why didn't Mizushima San take an existing earlier design and replicate it as is? I don't have that answer, but I do know that good things are always more expensive or take longer. And besides, he only gave it to me when he was totally satisfied with the performance of its sound. I was interested in it being the best possible machine, not the fastest to arrive. But now that the prototype exists, mine, the next RIAA amplifiers will surely be much faster, just not was my case. It was a test of eastern patience.

It has a phono input and a line input, just for convenience since the line input has no gain. The fader is 23 steps and is used fully open, or nearly so, in its phono position. Includes a Perke Drive design for low frequencies, originally developed by Tetsu Kimura. Decca equalization is also available for old pre-RIAA records from that british company. It is dedicated to Moving Magnet, MM cartridges. If I want MC, obviously it is done with a Step Up transformer with the specific gain and impedance of each cartridge. The transformers are Japanese craftsmanship commissioned by the builder, former Noguchi.

The tubes used are 12AT7 (ECC81) as voltage amplification, 6BL8 (ECF80) as driver and 6CA4 as rectifier. Which leads us to the next point: substitutes or interchangeables for the 12AT7 tube in voltage amplification, where we are going to experience more changes in sound depending on the tube.


12AT7 TUBE SUBSTITUTES

My hobby in HiFi I like to describe it as the search and knowledge of the sound of tubes. Tubes are my leitmotiv, apart of the music itself. I like specially DHT (Direct Heating Triodes) what are my favorites. In this case we talk about indirect heating double triodes, and even as we will see, double triodes-diodes.

Therefore, as soon as I knew that my gear was ready, I started looking for different substitutes for the 12AT7, what is the recommended tube, in order to listen and find the one that I like the most, or in the plural, different tubes that I would like them. And I found many and there are still more arriving.

52171933142_f7dda38072_b.jpg


Let's explain to contextualize that I can use the entire range that goes between 12AU7 – 12AT7 – 12AX7. The 12AU7 has a gain factor of 20, the 12AT7 has a gain factor of 70 and the 12AX7 has a gain factor of 100. And having more gain is critical when we need to pull up from 2 mV. The machine has the necessary autobias to fit the tube so I can not only use the direct substitute but also the close equivalents electrically.

However, it is not to come and add more gain because it also has implications, for example, with headroom management and ultimately with the perceived "quality" of the sound. In electronics, every decision has its compromises and HiFi is a matter of fine finishes. All this "hassle" is to recreate a certain beauty that we seek. On the contrary, there are also very good machines on the market that make our lives easier; and for all budgets.

Among the tubes I got of course is the direct European replacement for the 12AT7, the ECC81. In addition, there are the substitutes with military purposes and denomination, basically similar tubes with a higher construction standard and that ensure a longer useful life, which often translates to the perceived quality of the sound, not always. The military did not buy them for being audiophiles but for amplification especially for transmission.

Also, since we are talking about double triodes, two triodes in the same tube, it sounds reasonable to think that a double triode can be changed for two simple triodes: I did that. Instead of a single voltage tube per channel use two that would do the work of a single 12AT7 (or AU7 or AX7).

Finally, there are always the tubes that are electrically equivalent but have other connection pins. Instead of a 12AT7 I can use a Western Electric 420A, but it has other feet and other connections. If it's just that difference, connections, then we have the adapters (purchased if they exist or handcrafted).

After having tried tubes from the USA for a long time, I am now particularly interested in European tubes. It is said that one of the charms of european tubes is that each factory, as well as each country, has its own construction different from the others, which also means different sound. In the USA, quality approval and standardization were quickly reached. In Europe it depended on each manufacturer, so the magic of their valves is in the surprise that each different tube express. This is specially true I think for older tubes.

The tubes that I have with me to try, learn and enjoy are the following by now, and some more are always appearing:

52172963028_7e98ba31f6_b.jpg


12AT7WA Sylvania USA

12AU7 branded Baldwin (2 Japan & 2 USA)

12AX7 branded Baldwin USA

6Q7 Ultron, apparently are french Mazda manufacture (with adapter)

420A Western Electric USA (with adapter)

5751 International (GE) USA

5963 Sylvania USA

5965 Telefunken deutsch

5965 branded Telefunken > Philips ECG USA

5965 JAN USA (RCA?)

6201 Philips ECG USA

6201 Branded Hewlett Packard british

6679 General Electric USA

CK6201 Raytheon USA (with adapter)

CV455 Brimar british

CV1055 Mullard british

CV4024 Brimar british

ECC81 Siemens deutsch

ECC81 United Electron british

ECC801S Telefunken deutsch (not with me yet)

Other valves will be added as they appear.

52171932257_ef4cc892b0_b.jpg


The star of all 12AT7 replacements is said to be the Telefunken ECC801S ("the best ECC81 made on planet Earth"). I don't have it with me now, it's borrowed and they're going to send it to me from abroad. But it is very, very valuable and in these troubled days the shipments are chaotic and the courier has already lost things to me.

The ECC801S Telefunken was made to a special standard for special technical equipment from a German factory. It was not made for HiFi like almost all tubes at that days. Originally it already cost five times more than its similar ECC81 from the same factory. There is no patent, I understand, so Telefunken did not disclose the processes, chemicals and materials used. Nowadays nobody knows exactly how to build it and due to its high technical standard it is considered unrepeatable.

>>Fake Tubes

Perhaps many have already read Jac van de Walle and his experience with fake tubes. In short: virtually all expensive tubes that appear as a good deal on ebay, other portals, and even in stores, are fake. They are relabelled, they are rebranded, they are reprinted, they are renamed. The Telefunken could have their base diamond lasered and very similar to the original. And magically Chinese or Russian tubes that cost a few dollars bought for hundreds, are transformed into tubes up to hundreds of dollars. Buying tubes myself I found a factory that sold wholesale: the tube you wanted printed with the brand you chose! If you don't have some experience building tubes in-house, it's best to avoid tempting offers. Especially in small tubes the market is overcrowded with counterfeits. And now that there is a tube crisis due to the fire at the Shuguang plant and the exit of the Russian from the tube market, prices are shooting up even more, making pressure on counterfeiting. Anyway, a fact for Telefunken: if the base diamond is convex, it is original. If it's concave it's lasered and fake (but you can also take an original Telefunken and relabel it for a more expensive one, for example).

To avoid fakes, I bought the tubes mostly from Japan, as well as from reliable German and English sellers. Other tubes I simply checked the construction hoping to identify the fake tubes. I hope I am not also prey to fraud.

52174174369_67179b5c0e_b.jpg


One of the advantages of tubes is that by having different sounds - sometimes obvious, sometimes subtle, sometimes indistinguishable - it's like having different machines in one. Different sound presentations. And by combining different valves between power, driver and voltage, better or worse performances are also produced to our liking. Over the years of use I learned that for example the Radiotron UX245 power tube I like with the 6U8A preamp tube, and not with the original 6BL8-ECF80 (it's still very good sound but it fades a bit, but just enough to lose attractiveness). On the other hand, the Emission Labs 45 (flat plate) in reverse, I like it with 6BL8 and if I use it with 6U8A it is too much bright: that happened to me when I tried it for the first time and I decided not buy it, being a really excellent tube. Which one is better? It depends on how you combine it. And it depends on your amplifier and your circuit. That's just my experience with the behavior of my amplifier.

Finally, tuning a tube amp also requires dedication if you want to push it to its full potential. That is why this desire to test valves. And because it is our hobby: to achieve the best possible sound with the means we have.

The review of the performance and sounds will come in another thread since it will require prolonged listening. The arrival of an RIAA amplifier of this type requires several fine adjustments now in my system, which can also take time. I'm just going to advance a few things that were obvious to me: a) I'm not going to go back to a phono preamplifier other than LCR, the jump in quality seems too significant (I'm referring to the main audiophile system); b) the dynamic range was considerably expanded, which leads to another way of understanding what we listen (something as well like “liquid transients“); c) the harmonics now fly and the beauty that was hidden before, appeared; d) I had the sound filling the room again, projecting towards the listening position, and not in the line of the speakers, like DHT are; e) the dull and flat albums before now acquire other, much more expressive finishings; f) classical music finally has “grace”, it has substance as well as definition and different layers; the improved dynamic range and the handle of tones made this type of music appears; e) Did I tell you about the harmonics? If you don´t have a SET without NFB I think you don´t have even harmonics, the ones that our ears love, because they are canceled in push pull designs. That is more evident than ever in this right moment in my listening room.

52174174739_a27aa3892e_b.jpg


I've only listened to a few albums so far, I´m just sarting, but there was one in particular that I want to highlight because I found it directly on the Transamericas label (a recent Chilean label). I thought it sounded great and that's why I bought it, I don't have space for a lot of records so I select only the vinyls I like the most and the rest of the music I'm going to play with digital files or streaming. When I listened to it with this RIAA preamplifier in addition to a very good sound, it seemed Beautiful to me; that is what I mean, the transition in between Very Good Sound and Beauty, fine art. And beauty is revealing, epiphanic, emotional. I'm not the biggest fan of quiet electronic music so is an example how the beauty sounds open our listening, mind and taste. I´m sticking with it (https://www.discogs.com/release/16235130-Archimboldos-Exactomondo)


52173205559_9b4d32fb63_b.jpg


52172955636_4eb21b1c6c_b.jpg


The 6Q7 valves (I think these metallic black ones are Mazdas made in France and sold by the German company Ultron) and CV1055s (british Brimar, shielded glass 1968 construction) are simple triode tubes, so I need two to replace a single 12AT7. They seduced me immediately, they are the quietest of all and with a captivating sound in my opinion. It is a triode tube (top) and diode (bottom) although in these models you cannot see the internal construction. Original design from the 30's. They look cool on the amp, at least to my taste. I´ll listen much more before to undestand and share an reasoned opinion of the sound. The review of valves on the LCR amplifier sounds needs weeks and months, but is coming.


52173205709_cca6de512f_b.jpg


52172964018_6113a2dced_b.jpg



Finally I want to thank to master Mizushima San for his particular dedication. I've only just begun to listen to his work and the finesse of the gear forces me to make adjustments to my system, mainly improving the electrical network and acoustics at home to have the deathly silence that this RIAA needs and deserves. Thank you Kenji San. Long live the music!
 
Register to hide this ad
I strongly disagree with the concept presented here that the generation of even-order energy is a desirable characteristic. The goal of any amplifier design should be to reproduce music without injecting its own voice. When I power a new amplifier for the first time, if I can't push all harmonics to below the threshold of audibility, I consider it broken. That's true for Class A, Class AB1, SETs, SEPs and push-pull.

Jack
 
I strongly disagree with the concept presented here that the generation of even-order energy is a desirable characteristic. The goal of any amplifier design should be to reproduce music without injecting its own voice. When I power a new amplifier for the first time, if I can't push all harmonics to below the threshold of audibility, I consider it broken. That's true for Class A, Class AB1, SETs, SEPs and push-pull.

Jack

Hi Jack,
I agree with you about to (not) generate harmonics like a desirable. That is not my point so maybe I explained myself in a wrong way.
What I´m talking about, even and odd harmonics, is simple Physics, I think.
In its own nature Triodes DHT produce more even harmonics. And in its own nature the others topologies with NFB cancel even hamonics (and could impulse the upper odd harmonics). In psychoacoustic studies we like more even harmonics and we like less odd harmonics.
So the amplifier designer should decide how to manage that physics facts and the distribution of the harmonics following the topology. And the users (audiophiles at least) should decide what they prefer to listen. I prefer to have the even harmonics of DHT without NFB. I like another topologies as well, just less.
What amplifier or what topology amplifier you think gives all the harmonics?
 
That was probably a whole heap of word salad, before it hit the translatior.

I'm glad you are enjoying your preamp, I can't make heads nor tails of any of that description but if you like it, and its quiet on the rests, how bad can it be?

Enjoy your preamp, because finding one which you like can be an expensive chore.
 
Last edited:
Hi Jack,
I agree with you about to (not) generate harmonics like a desirable. That is not my point so maybe I explained myself in a wrong way.
What I´m talking about, even and odd harmonics, is simple Physics, I think.
In its own nature Triodes DHT produce more even harmonics. And in its own nature the others topologies with NFB cancel even hamonics (and could impulse the upper odd harmonics). In psychoacoustic studies we like more even harmonics and we like less odd harmonics.
So the amplifier designer should decide how to manage that physics facts and the distribution of the harmonics following the topology. And the users (audiophiles at least) should decide what they prefer to listen. I prefer to have the even harmonics of DHT without NFB. I like another topologies as well, just less.
What amplifier or what topology amplifier you think gives all the harmonics?

Kurorin, I believe high quality DHT amplifiers sound best for reasons we can only guess at. The same is true of the issue regarding AC vs DC filaments for power DHTs. Many listeners prefer AC filaments, but no one knows why. My 211 amplifiers use about 6 dB NFB to improve dampening, and in my opinion, this improves overall sound quality with no discernible downside.

Jack
 
Last edited:
That was probably a whole heap of word salad, before it hit the translatior.

I'm glad you are enjoying your preamp, I can't make heads nor tails of any of that description but if you like it, and its quiet on the rests, how bad can it be?

Enjoy your preamp, because finding one which you like can be an expensive chore.

Thank you!
I have the problem to express myself in short words. And believe me, in my own language is worst :)
 
Another 12at7 type that is highly regarded is the A2900, by GEC. Another military type that is very rare and expensive nowadays.

Thank you Primotubes. Good tip! I´m very curious.
Maybe is possible to listen them, just they look very rare and expensive.
Did you hear it? How they work?
 
Kurorin, I believe high quality DHT amplifiers sound best for reasons we can only guess at. The same is true of the issue regarding AC vs DC filaments for power DHTs. Many listeners prefer AC filaments, but no one knows why. My 211 amplifiers use about 6 dB NFB to improve dampening, and in my opinion, this improves overall sound quality with no discernible downside.

Jack

Yes Jack. I think there are a lot of areas the we don´t understand in DHT amplification. We don´t know exactly the sound of a gear with our poor specifications and measurements. And the great old masters of DHT are passing by; Kanno, Zaika, Shindo, Yamanaka, Sakuma recently. Just I didn´t listen an amplifier of Sakuma and maybe never in a good context. But he was an influencer, a curious designer, surely a genius, cooking in his restaurant, listening music and making a new kind of amplifiers, with freedom about the strict japanese rules.

Still we have some masters with us. We will see how the future is for valve´s amplifiers.

I mention them because I think is good idea to know what the masters made. Check what the best are doing. Mostly they loved and built Single Ended DHT, with the electric signal as pure as possible, without NFB (something like one hundred years ago). And just in DHT is possible not to use NFB due their linearity an low distortion, I understand. But if the design demands that, they used NFB, like Yamanaka do in some 211 amplifiers for example (6 dB NFB). Is not a religion this topic of NFB. Just they know that character of an amplifier change with NFB and that was they were looking for. Here is a decission in between engineer and artist: the best for the sound.

The even harmonics is just a part of the big picture, but I think very important to know in order to understand for what reasons SET DHT tipology has a different sound, almost for everybody, because push pull cancel that, is just not there. In my amplifier I have the optio to use 0dB, 3dB or 6dB NFB. In my tipology and my favorite tubes (45 and 46) it is obvious that NFB is not the best sound option, but I´m thinking to try (in the same amplifier) pentode connected like triode and I can imagine I should use NFB. I´m absolutely open to that; again it´s about the sound.

Now I know that I can love pentode connected like triode (what needs some NFB), because one of the best amplifier sound that I ever listen is the Mazda PEN45, in triode and with NFB necessarily: amazing for me, just different than regular triodes and better in different orders.

Surely most people can tell some experiences here. Great to learn more. I´m curious. It´s my lovely hobby.
 
If you want to reduce even order harmonics, without using NFB, just run a pair of triodes in a Pull Pull configuration.

That way, everyone is satisfied. :D
 
My experience has been that amplifier designs where you are encouraged to "roll tubes" to get to a sound, while they do sound different with different tubes, they don't ever get me to that point where I'm hearing the errors recorded on the music.
You should be able to tell good records from lesser ones.
If you're missing entire octaves of the music as mine was due to being designed by a master who was actually just a charlatan.

Theres no conceivable way a preamp is going to sound right with a 12AU7 then also sound right with a 12ax7 in the same hole.
All of the component values are different the feedback ratios are different and the list goes on, because they are vastly different tubes designed for different jobs.
So what's a person to do, roll through a bunch of tubes and try not to spend too much?
What do you do with the extras, sell em?
Pay shipping again, sales tax again, risk mishandling again, and crashing around in a truck makes them go microphonic...

Sounds like a game we played as kids called

"pin the tail on the donkey"

In my experience, the best designed tube phono stages work extremely well with any tube (in my case 12AX7) from any manufacturer.
Years ago I bought a board kit from one of the "masters" claiming to make a PAS preamp sound like a multi thousand dollar Audiophile device... I was a sucker and I got had. The board kit worked but never sounded right on the phono stage, never had any bass. Tube rolling helped but I never quite got to sonic bliss, and I didn't know what I was missing until I replaced it.
He was a feedback averse religious fanatic, but there are other cults...

So i ask.
What makes these people "masters" specifically? In my experience its easy to get drawn into religious sects in audio, and these masters are all insistent that they know the one true truth. Electronics is mysterious and confusing to most and having an old man ramble on about his design philosophy could convince a person he knows what he's doing, and maybe he does, or maybe he knows how to wire a tube to make sound come out.
We make these guys out to be the true holders of knowledge and ancient wisdom.

Most are probably just trying to build themselves some amps and keep the rent paid...
Sorry for the rant.
Beauty is in the eye or ear of the beholder.
Mastery comes only from a lifetime of persistence through adversity.

How is it that only one or 2 people on earth have mastered the 100 year old art of making valves work, but theres a thousand kids a day graduating from college who jump right in to coding or electrical engineering, because these things arent mysterious dark arts, they are well understood sciences, and extremely basic ones at that.
With a bit of effort and study, anyone can understand tube amplifiers...
 
Last edited:
"Mastery comes only from a lifetime of persistence through adversity."

And talent. Without that, even a lifetime of work is only effort.

FWIW, I don't roll tubes. New designs are based on tubes and operating conditions that position the unit where I want. Final testing with instrumentation and ears confirms whether I've hit the mark. I do hand select tubes and combinations for lowest distortion. That seems to eliminate the need to randomly test dozens of variants for their sonic qualities.

Jack
 
My experience has been that amplifier designs where you are encouraged to "roll tubes" to get to a sound, while they do sound different with different tubes, they don't ever get me to that point where I'm hearing the errors recorded on the music.
You should be able to tell good records from lesser ones.
If you're missing entire octaves of the music as mine was due to being designed by a master who was actually just a charlatan.

Theres no conceivable way a preamp is going to sound right with a 12AU7 then also sound right with a 12ax7 in the same hole.
All of the component values are different the feedback ratios are different and the list goes on, because they are vastly different tubes designed for different jobs.
So what's a person to do, roll through a bunch of tubes and try not to spend too much?
What do you do with the extras, sell em?
Pay shipping again, sales tax again, risk mishandling again, and crashing around in a truck makes them go microphonic...

Sounds like a game we played as kids called

"pin the tail on the donkey"

In my experience, the best designed tube phono stages work extremely well with any tube (in my case 12AX7) from any manufacturer.
Years ago I bought a board kit from one of the "masters" claiming to make a PAS preamp sound like a multi thousand dollar Audiophile device... I was a sucker and I got had. The board kit worked but never sounded right on the phono stage, never had any bass. Tube rolling helped but I never quite got to sonic bliss, and I didn't know what I was missing until I replaced it.
He was a feedback averse religious fanatic, but there are other cults...

So i ask.
What makes these people "masters" specifically? In my experience its easy to get drawn into religious sects in audio, and these masters are all insistent that they know the one true truth. Electronics is mysterious and confusing to most and having an old man ramble on about his design philosophy could convince a person he knows what he's doing, and maybe he does, or maybe he knows how to wire a tube to make sound come out.
We make these guys out to be the true holders of knowledge and ancient wisdom.

Most are probably just trying to build themselves some amps and keep the rent paid...
Sorry for the rant.
Beauty is in the eye or ear of the beholder.
Mastery comes only from a lifetime of persistence through adversity.

How is it that only one or 2 people on earth have mastered the 100 year old art of making valves work, but theres a thousand kids a day graduating from college who jump right in to coding or electrical engineering, because these things arent mysterious dark arts, they are well understood sciences, and extremely basic ones at that.
With a bit of effort and study, anyone can understand tube amplifiers...


I think I understand your point of view. All of us have had bad experiences. In my group of friends we have bought amplifiers that we have not liked at all. Some of them get great reviews on western websites. Some of them are very expensive. But we have not liked and have been much inferior, in our taste.

How to learn if we only read information online? In the Forums we find generous, informed, knowledgeable opinions. We find people with headaches . Some opinions are based on too little experience or misunderstanding. We also find toxic opinions.

So I experience what I can do and pay for it. After trying cartridges and valves I thought it's a good idea to share and not keep this "knowledge" just for me. For example it was revealing for me to find very attractive simple triodes like CV1055 instead of 12AT7. Without this experience perhaps I would never have known.

Besides, we all have to pay rent. Mozart was a bad tenant but I think he was a master. Piazzolla could only afford a better life after Libertango; he used to be an employee making music for a very low salary trying to eat and pay the rent. But I think he was a master too.

The Japanese masters, I think, have been the ones who have gone the furthest in DHT tube amplification.

Osho Kanno was the creator of a very important electrical and telecommunications company in Japan (http://kanno.co.jp/). His models are the most respected among his peers. The best 300B that I ever heard is a Kanno. And he was not an amplifier craftsman: he loved amplifiers, sound and music.

Sakuma taught the others how to use DHT in driver to control power. Experimenting and against the rules. Music and amplifier lover as well.

Shishido went the furthest using interstage transformers. His designs continue to be made and copied.

Shindo in a small family business built perhaps some unsurpassed machines (the amps I've heard him build - the 34 and 300B - aren't my favourites, but his Western Electric model phono stage is a far cry from anything else I know.

Morikawa - Ushida developed the classic 300B -6SN7 circuit that everyone uses today, probably without even knowing it was them.

Yamanaka is a small builder shop but he has simply made the best amps I have ever heard, four different ones. Unfortunately he died in 2010. I managed to talk to him and ask him for an amplifier but he died two months later. I didn't want to continue with his successor just because I didn't know his work and at that moment I preferred to ask another Japanese engineer.

Even other "small" advances like the Perke Drive system for low-frequency control, invented by Tetsu Kimura, are great additions.

I don't recommend all Japanese engineers and craftsmen (I don't like many of them and I wouldn't waste my money or time). In addition, there are problems of cultural shock, language and very little information on the internet (or there is simply none). And I also like engineers and craftsmen from other countries. In my country I know little geniuses. But it is one thing to understand tubes and sound amplification and quite another to make a piece of art or illuminate others for future generations.

What is your favorite tube? What is your favorite craftsman? if you have one. Because this is not about fake Gurus, it is about real work, results and the most beautiful sound.
 
Favorite tubes start from the most available (12ax7 and 6l6, 6550) and as they become harder to get, it makes less and less sense to try and use them, or design around them.
As for designers, I don't look at personalities I look at their work. Many times the designers and builders are dead.
I have learned many things by studying the competent designs or persons since passed. No one person comes to mind.

I'll say Herb Keroes, Acrosound transformers.
Herb figured out that he ould build damn good transformers and developed the Ultralinear circuit into a good little business for himself for a few years. My admiration does not necessarily lie with him but with the culture of experimentation that he chose to support in his business model by offering not only kits to build amplifiers, but raw transformers that could be used to design your own HiFi amp. The performance to be expected from his product was published in the catalog along with some schematic to get you started.
Then you crack open this months Radio and television news and learn how to build a regulated supply for that amp, or an alternative driver circuit...
Maybe implement some local feedback...

There was a culture and industry around a home experimentation with audio amplifiers. Not to get to some subjective "beautiful real sound" but to improve the measured performance of a design.
If you can improve the measured performance then you have improved the amp, and there was some number of people, fully into building high performance vacuum tube amplifiers.
I wasn't alive
By the time I was born things had changed in a number of ways. Education was all about learning the building blocks of being employable. Not an empowering experience. Some lucky life circumstances allowed me to really dig in and learn what I'm passionate about after my "education" and I got into working with tubes. By that point in time most people who knew tubes, are dead. While this is a true fact and getting truer by the day, it make no sense to me to limit your learning and your study to the work of living Gurus.

This is Music we are talking about. We do not put a piece of music to rest when the composer dies, not at all.
Maybe half of the music we learned in school the composer had already passed.
Yet they each had something to teach.

So in terms of favorite builder, I don't have one. I have a favorite style of build, and that is a home built, diy amplifier, which shows knowledge and implementation of advanced design techniques,
Feedback, cool.
Dual feedback points, (cooler)
Positive feedback, nested within negative feedback (that's advanced and I'd like to look at it)

I like to see noise cancelation via balanced amplifier stages. The more the better...

I like to see neat, well thought out point to point layout.

I like to find these things when they are built with Military grade American components.

I dont necessarily hold any one person to be the god of tube amplifiers, but I instead recognize the conditions on the ground that led to truly great amplifies being developed by "hackers" in the 1950s and 60s. I'm nostalgic for a world where kids were truly encouraged to think and develop their minds and challenge themselves. Where your education wasn't limited to what's on the test.
Maybe your family wasn't so busy, and grandpa can sit down and build out a Scott LK72 in the evenings and learn right along side the grandchildren...
There was a time when thinking was encouraged...
You rarely see these things, but when you do, it is a real treat.
 
So in terms of favorite builder, I don't have one. I have a favorite style of build, and that is a home built, diy amplifier, which shows knowledge and implementation of advanced design techniques,
Feedback, cool.
Dual feedback points, (cooler)
Positive feedback, nested within negative feedback (that's advanced and I'd like to look at it)

HK used the latter technique in several push-pull models. It was one of those particular amplifiers that dragged me back to tube audio after many years of listening unenthusiastically to SS. Voltage gain of the driver circuit below is more than 300.

Jack

HK PFB.jpg
 
Because this is not about fake Gurus, it is about real work, results and the most beautiful sound.

I have tremendous respect for the efforts and talents of Japanese craftsmen regarding vacuum tube audio. Regardless of whether we all agree on any specific technique, their contributions during the last few decades have been purer and more historically meaningful than almost anything produced by the West. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that the enthusiasm applied in Japan has been instrumental in advancing both the artistry and substance of this field.

Jack
 
HK used the latter technique in several push-pull models. It was one of those particular amplifiers that dragged me back to tube audio after many years of listening unenthusiastically to SS. Voltage gain of the driver circuit below is more than 300.

Jack

View attachment 2606121
Yes Iya.
Hk in this instance being Harmon Kardon.

Herb Keroes, ironically has the same initials and also implemented some pretty advanced feedback in his designs.

Theres no wrong path to audio bliss.
If you're enjoying yourself, you have the basics right.
 
Thank you Primotubes. Good tip! I´m very curious.
Maybe is possible to listen them, just they look very rare and expensive.
Did you hear it? How they work?
I had a few GEC A2900 some time ago , all NOS and in mint condition, some were 3-mica , others 2-mica versions.
I mostly agreed with everything said about them , they sounded very dynamic, powerful and clear. However, for my taste , I found them a bit too much of everything.
I have settled with mullard cv4024 (12AT7WA) instead, and sold all A2900 (CV6091). I'm sure though, that many will prefer them to the cv4024 or other 12AT7's.

Here are some pictures from my archives.



GEC A2900 CV6091 005.jpg GEC A2900 CV6091 006.jpg GEC A2900 CV6091 007.jpg
 
Back
Top Bottom