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Harman Kardon amp advice ('90s or '00s)

GusGuT

New Member
Hello All,
I have a question as recommendation for my home system.
I would like to purchase an old Harman Kardon integrated amplifier for the '90s or '00s.
I have read that Japanese production stopped about 1997-1998 and then they moved to other countries.

I have listened a HK6500 (70W) which to me was wonderful. No idea if this is best option or I should looking for a more powerful HK680 (85W).

At the moment I'm interested on HK models instead old PM models from the end of '80s.

Should I look for a '90s Harman Kardon amp or for a modern '00s?

Many thanks in advance for any feedback/experience about these model series.
 
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Hello GusGuT and welcome to AK. We would need a little more information to help you out. Your budget also speakers. How big is the room the system will be in and the loudness/SPL you are looking for. This will help for others to give you opinions on your possibilities
 
We would need a little more information to help you out. Your budget also speakers.

Thank you @powerman

I'm looking for an used amp (from the '90s or '00s) and for a Harman Kardon HK unit model with only analogue inputs.(no interested on phono MM/MC input)
The amp will be connected to an external Dac (Topping E30) from an entry level CD player.
My room is a 5x5 meters and I will manage a pair of Klipsch R620F. (I love the "live sound" of Klipsch and the great dynamic range at low and high volumes)
Saying that I know that Klipsch and older and colored Harman Kardon amps are a good combination.

I saw that today models are refined, more transparent and more neutral than in the past. But from my type of listened music I'm really looking for an old and warmer HK amp which is colored and with reinforced bass.
 
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What is your budget and location. I was never impressed by the newer receivers. My experience with them was from the late 70’s to mid to late 80’s. I like separates better
 
@powerman
Honestly I do not have defined a budget. Not yet but on used items this should not be an issue.
I'm in Europe and I could look into the German market in which they are several used items and also specific professional stores offering also serviced units.

It seems that newer amps were progressively worst than older ones when production was in Japan.

Probably I should concentrate on '90s integrated units?
 
Can I ask for some feedback and recommendations about these HK amplifiers?

Many thanks in advance for any help about it
 
Sorry I can not be of more help, but in my lifetime only had a couple of receivers. I did have their HK 670 a 60wpc for a little while and it was better sounding then the others
 
Hello everybody
I have a tower diffusers Klipsch R620F and I need some help and advice regarding old Harman Kardon amplifiers.

Does someone feedback and information about 1990's or 2000's Harman Kardon amps?

I was interested on a HK680 and I have had the opportunity to listen a HK6500. I'm looking on HK series (and not much interested in the old PM series)

Many thanks in advance for any feedback.
 
Hello All,
I have a question as recommendation for my home system.
I would like to purchase an old Harman Kardon integrated amplifier for the '90s or '00s.
I have read that Japanese production stopped about 1997-1998 and then they moved to other countries.

I have listened a HK6500 (70W) which to me was wonderful. No idea if this is best option or I should looking for a more powerful HK680 (85W).

At the moment I'm interested on HK models instead old PM models from the end of '80s.

Should I look for a '90s Harman Kardon amp or for a modern '00s?

Many thanks in advance for any feedback/experience about these model series.

???? Why only 90's .. ??

I have a PM6500, PM6600, and a PM660 (late 80's)..

To my ear the 660 has a much sweeter, more musical tone ..especially when run pure direct (no preamplification) ..
The newer amps 6500, 6600 are edgier, not as natural .. truncated harmonics in the top end, though a bit tighter and better controlled in the bass notes than the 660.
The 90's amps have a higher damping factor than the 660 ..

The 90's amps sit in the corner .. I listen to the 660 with a streamer every day ..upstairs
even though more serious separate amps live in the basement .. B&K, Aaragon, and an el34 tube amp

Good choicie IMO tho .. The Harmans are an overlooked bargain these days ..
I read threads here all of the time praising overpriced Marantz and Sansui products which are in no way superior to the high current Harman's...
They were just more common and visible in their day... listened to most of them when they were new.
 
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???? Why only 90's .. ??
Thanks @Akustik for your feedback

Why on '90s or 2000s? Just because I have not knowledge about older items as '80s amps and because today is difficult to find older items in a general good condition.
I saw that the PM660vxi is a good option but I have never listened one of the vxi models.

To my ears the HK6500 that I have listened was warmer and stronger in bass. Based on this info I was wondering if someone have experience on similar items or on a newer ones.

I totally agree that Harman are overlooked. I was interested to know which could be a good model for my tower Klipsch speakers.
 
I have a HK6600 that I bought 7 or 8 months ago. The cosmetics were very good but I had to clean the controls with Deoxit twice, but the amp is 30 years old now. It works good and sounds nice. The front mounted preamp switch makes this easy to do. The rated 90wpc is underrated in my opinion. And best of all was the cost of $30.00 although I see them for sale in the $100-150.00 usually which is not too bad.
 
Don't overlook the AVR receivers of this time period. They have massive power supplies and can probably go toe to toe power wise with many of the HK separate amps that came before them.

The AVR 20/25 are excellent analog (pro logic) units worth seeking out.

The later and larger 7000 series digital units are even more powerful. My 7200 has been here 20 years and is now used just as an amp for 2 channel listening with my JBL 4410s. It's a beast...

Jblnut
 
Thanks @Akustik for your feedback

Why on '90s or 2000s? Just because I have not knowledge about older items as '80s amps and because today is difficult to find older items in a general good condition.
I saw that the PM660vxi is a good option but I have never listened one of the vxi models.

To my ears the HK6500 that I have listened was warmer and stronger in bass. Based on this info I was wondering if someone have experience on similar items or on a newer ones.

I totally agree that Harman are overlooked. I was interested to know which could be a good model for my tower Klipsch speakers.

Thanks @Akustik for your feedback

Why on '90s or 2000s? Just because I have not knowledge about older items as '80s amps and because today is difficult to find older items in a general good condition.
I saw that the PM660vxi is a good option but I have never listened one of the vxi models.

To my ears the HK6500 that I have listened was warmer and stronger in bass. Based on this info I was wondering if someone have experience on similar items or on a newer ones.

I totally agree that Harman are overlooked. I was interested to know which could be a good model for my tower Klipsch speakers.

Some of the later 80's amps that were influenced by Mati Otala's consulting work with Harman are nice sounding amps ..
Hard to know unless you've compared the amps side by side though ..
The tonal differences between amps can vary from suble to unmistakably different ..

But then an amp from the 80's is that much older too ... so it's all a balancing act ..
And the 6500 is a fine sounding amp.. I'm comparing it to separate power amps that cost 4 times it's price.
 
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I also have an AVR 40 that I use also. I have had it so long I can't remember where or when I got it. A good unit at 65wpc, I have always used it in stereo mode both as a receiver and a tuner-preamp.
 
Just seen this thread and thought I would add my 2 cents.

Back in the '80s I had a HK650. This was a recommendation in one of the HiFi mags, calling is a sleeper. Absolutely true. 50 wpc and high current, it drove my B&W DM7 Mk2 speakers comfortably and sweetly. The MC section was also excellent. I was persuaded by HiFi Answers in the mid 80's to replace it with a Musical Fidelity Synthesis. Frankly, I could not tell the difference. All that was important was that the MF was a great amp with a great MC input.

Fast forward 30 years. The B&W speakers are still around, but small kids and big dogs with swishing tails meant that the turntable was set aside. The Musical Fidelity was dying and a Cambridge Audio amp was purchased that was more modern (it had a remote). Life was boring. Then 7 or 8 months ago, I decided to get my hifi back together. My wife wanted the B&W coffins out of the living room, and in moved Kef LS50 Metas/Kef KC62 subwoofer. The amp was out of its depth. Thinking back to the Harman Kardon, I began researching what was available. In the end I found a HK6500 in Germany which had been cleaned up. It was cheap enough to pay shipping to Australia. This slotted into the system, and made beautiful music.

After a few months it was difficult to avoid hearing a slight hardness in voices. So on to the search for a better amp. I came across wonderful - outstanding - reviews for a Musical Fidelity A3.2 (... my weakness for MF), and purchased one. This replaced the HK. It did not take long to realised that the MF A3.2 was not as good as the HK6500. The MF lacked the clarity and spaciousness. Music on the A3.2 sounded flat in comparison. The HK6500 replaced the MF A3.2, which was returned.

If you can find one of these amps, just buy it! It is the bargain of the century. No, it is not the best in the world, but I think would beat out most new mid-range amps. For me it is not the end of the story as I have found an amp to beat it, a Devialet Expert 120. That costs several times as much.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
HK's are worth seeking out
I ran an early 80's 460i receiver for a good 10 years or so that I was very happy with -- contact cleaner is a must-have for the little push buttons as well as the volume and tone control knobs
the phono preamp was always at a lower volume than the other inputs (but you said this wasn't a feature you would use)

and I'm currently enjoying a mid-to-late 80's HK870 power amp, had this one for almost a year
 
Maybe it's a bit late now, two years later, but I'm really curious, GusGuT, did you end up finding the right HK amplifier? From my experience, it's really hard to get information about the differences between the PM and HK series. Most opinions I managed to find favored the PM series over the HK series, although on the other hand, owners of both HK series swear by the sound of their devices (maybe they haven't had a chance to hear the PM series?). Here's my modest contribution to this now not-so-relevant topic.
I own several Harman Kardon amplifier models, and I have restored each of them (replacing electrolytic capacitors, trimmers, re-soldering the boards, etc.). After some time of breaking them in, I directly compared the sound of two of my models: the HK6800 and the PM655vxi. The HK6800 was refreshed with Nichicon Fine Gold capacitors, while the PM655vxi used Samwha capacitors. I connected one CD player and a pair of speakers to each amplifier and played two identical CDs simultaneously from both CD players. Using the volume knobs, I alternated between the two, and to my great surprise, despite the HK6800 being far superior in construction, the PM655vxi sounded much better.
The PM655vxi delivers a crystal-clear sound, with soft and precise bass. The entire soundstage is rich, with noticeable depth and separation of instruments and vocals—you can feel the "air" in the sound it produces. On the other hand, the HK6800 lacks depth in the soundstage; vocals aren't clearly defined, and in a word, it sounds blurry. When it comes to bass, the HK6800, like all other Harmans, is consistently above average (I also own the PM665, PM655vxi, HK6600, and HK6800).
I'm sorry I haven't had the chance to hear the PM660, which many say is the best model of them all, but I plan to acquire and refresh it, just like the others. A colleague from our forum commented that the models from the '90s have poorer sound quality compared to the earlier series.
I’d love to hear more opinions on this topic, so if anyone has experience, feel free to share. A link to similar discussions would also be welcome. Cheers, everyone!
 
Hello @GusGuT and All, late but long reply, apologies...

Regarding the HK680 it's definitely worth to read Dejan Veselinovic's review at tnt-audio. Written by someone who built custom high-end transistor amps for many years, his good words have some ground to me.

My experiences following are all with used units and subjective, take them with a grain of salt.
Consider the fact that any used amp nearing 20-30 years of age should be thoroughly checked before use, even more the H/K-s which are direct coupled without protection for the failure of the output stage, which can make significant damage to your precious speakers.

With all that said i have 4 HK680s and a bunch of other H/K amps waiting for restoration, i just love the way they sound.

If you are willing to diy, check out Trevor's bench at youtoube, he has a lot of good H/K repair videos, also Xraytonyb for a detailed restoration of the PM665.

No experiences with the 6500 but you simply cannot find a bad word about this amp on the net (considering its price ofc) so it should be a safe bet.

If you can, avoid the HK630, HK650, HK690 which use mediocre opamps and have inferior prestages. Their power amp section is however still discrete and excellent for the price.

The HK680 was my first decent amp, source was a Chord Mojo, speakers were Elac EL160 IIs (old totl 4 Ohm floorstanders). I was stunned by the performance this system gave. The Elacs were extremely fast and let the 680 shine. At that time i had a H/K AVR10 and a Yamaha RX-V359. The AVR10 did a fair job for the 20 or 25 Euros i've bought it, but was nowhere near the 680 in each and every aspect. The Yammie was loud and more detailed, somehow lacking bass and cleanliness (or black background) and sounding unbearably artificial, tiring and uninvolving compared to the 680. Perhaps it's not a fair comparison, i'd still go for the AVR10 over the RX-V359 though.

The 680 was made in Korea and sounded subjectively better (more meat and excitement, midrange, immediacy) than the Japanese made ones i later acquired, which are still very good. Perhaps the age, the caps, who knows?

The PM665 sounded ok but the highest range was missing, i suspect the caps and carbon comp resistors were way out of tolerance. According to Xraytonyb, these are hard to service and the pcbs and tracks are brittle.

Later on the speakers were changed to Mission 767s and although the 680 drives them to a beautiful, clean and powerful sound, it slightly lacks the juice and grip to really make them sing.

Among the H/K AVRs the AVR8500 (= AVR8000 in the USA) is something special (...), best used with direct inputs (everything is bypassed but the volume control) or the source fed directly into the power amps (no preamp, no volume c).

Anyone considering the HK680, just give it a try, have it checked by a tech and be amazed.
 
Hello everybody, this is my first post here but certainly won’t be my last.

Great point for me to jump in as I’m really curious as to what GusGut went for in the end, sadly i suspect we’ll never know ….. but …….

This is my area of love. 80’s HK PM‘s have rocked my world since i was 16, when my best mate’s Dad, who owned the HIFI shop ‘Mastersound’ in Haywards Heath, UK
arrived at my house in London with a 645, a T20 turntable, (at least i think it was, the cheapest one anyway) and a pair of JBL L20t’s.
Almost all my mates went out and bought new systems after hearing mine, but nobody topped it except of course, my best mate, as of course, he ensured his son was going to hold the sound system trophy amongst our mates by furnishing him with a pair of L46’s ……. My L20’s couldn’t touch em and damn did i want a white woofer!

Anyway, what i really wanted to say is IMO a fully serviced, balanced, newly capped PM 645/55/65 (preferably without the vxi at the end) will wipe the floor with anything they put out afterwards in that same medium bracket market. I’ve had a 665 driving my Ardens for ages now and they sound fab. There’s just such a wonderful colour from them, that for me, is reminiscent of going to bed under a massive down duvet in an expensive hotel that you managed to get a 50% discount on with free breakfast. For the money, wow …… proper amps.

Having said that, they do take a load of maintenance, those damn switches!, and, no, as somebody pointed out, they really aren’t the easiest to work on, but if you do it right and don’t smoke a pack a day, and don’t have it in the kitchen, it’ll last you another 30 years before you have to take that panel off again.

Why oh why would you consider the HK90’s/00‘s over these, they’re just not in the same country.

And why of why would i choose to make such definitive claims on my first post? …. I never learn, DOH! But it’s been nice to hang out with you guys for a while, it always amazes me how clever everybody is.

Matt
 
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