Help buying a turntable! (TD 125, TD 309, Gyrodec)

[DimiSakis]

Hi all,

I am thinking of getting a good turntable. Bear in mind I am still a beginner! After some looking around, I found the below 3 options:

TD 309 (TP 92 tonearm, AT-95 B)
Price: 850€ New

TD 125 (SME 3009 tonearm, no cart)
Price: 700€ Used, not exactly sure about the condition, pictures look alright

Michel Gyro (Tecnoarm, EPC-270C, HR power supply)
Price: 1600€ Used, very good condition

I would appreciate any input/ suggestion you have, and specifically your view on:

• The sound quality that these turntables can produce (assuming I upgrade the cartridges)
• The longevity and serviceability of the turntables
• Your overall opinion on what the best deal would be

I realise that personal preference is key but auditioning anything at the moment isn’t an option - hence my request for assistance.

Thanks a ton in advance!

 

[Blue Shadow]

This thread is going to be moved to the $&¢ forum where we talk prices.

but which TD-125 or 125 II
Which 3009, series II or series II improved with or without fixed headshell

Maybe post the pics.

 

[DimiSakis]

Hi there, good points

Its the TD-125 MK1, with what I believe to be the non-improved version with a removable headshell. The pictures below should help someone with more knowledge identify it and sort of judge the overall condition.

 

[flavio81]

Hi all,

I am thinking of getting a good turntable. Bear in mind I am still a beginner! After some looking around, I found the below 3 options:

TD 309 (TP 92 tonearm, AT-95 B)
Price: 850€ New

TD 125 (SME 3009 tonearm, no cart)
Price: 700€ Used, not exactly sure about the condition, pictures look alright

Best value by far is the TD125. A SME 3009 tonearm in very good condition would cost you the 700 euros. Check that the speed is smooth and steady and go grab it...

I had a TD125MKII with SME 3009 S2, and later used a SME 3009 Series III. In all cases it sounded really beautifully. I modded mine to be an un-suspended turntable.

The TD125 will live forever. There are spare parts, and the circuit board uses no exotic components. Moreover i wouldn't be surprised if somebody is offering a brand new circuit board design somewhere.

The fact that it has no cart is a plus for me. You should always get a brand new cartridge.

The Michael-Gyro-tacky-thing leave it for the people who value aesthetics over anything else. The Thorens has a very high mechanical quality, even if it doesn't look like it would.

 

[Onebean]

I own a TD125 with the same SME 3009 tonearm shown in your picture. It is a very nice sounding turntable, and will likely never loose it’s value for the reasons @flavio81 mentions. That would be the one I would buy.

 

[Ilikevinyl]

Michell Gyro would be my pick.

 

[DimiSakis]

Best value by far is the TD125. A SME 3009 tonearm in very good condition would cost you the 700 euros. Check that the speed is smooth and steady and go grab it...

I had a TD125MKII with SME 3009 S2, and later used a SME 3009 Series III. In all cases it sounded really beautifully. I modded mine to be an un-suspended turntable.

The TD125 will live forever. There are spare parts, and the circuit board uses no exotic components. Moreover i wouldn't be surprised if somebody is offering a brand new circuit board design somewhere.

The fact that it has no cart is a plus for me. You should always get a brand new cartridge.

The Michael-Gyro-tacky-thing leave it for the people who value aesthetics over anything else. The Thorens has a very high mechanical quality, even if it doesn't look like it would.

Thank you for the response!

May I ask why you opted to remove the suspension from the turntable? Also, since you seem to be quite familiar with the table, what are other mods/ upgrades that I could do If I decided to purchase it (both to make it sound or look better)?

One more thing - you mention that a good condition SME 3009 tonearm would warrant the 700 Euros alone - can you make any sort of assessment of the condition o the tonearm based on the pictures (See 1 more with a better view of the arm below) - Or let me know what to look for when I go have a look in person!

 

[flavio81]

Thank you for the response!

May I ask why you opted to remove the suspension from the turntable? Also, since you seem to be quite familiar with the table, what are other mods/ upgrades that I could do If I decided to purchase it (both to make it sound or look better)?

One more thing - you mention that a good condition SME 3009 tonearm would warrant the 700 Euros alone - can you make any sort of assessment of the condition o the tonearm based on the pictures (See 1 more with a better view of the arm below) - Or let me know what to look for when I go have a look in person!

View attachment 2764426

Your tonearm looks tasty. BUYBUYBUYBUYBUYBUY

I woudnt't suggest any mod, only to replace the foam that goes inside the springs that support the top plate. Perhaps people sell complete overhaul kits.

What I did was to remove those support springs and replace them with rubber thingies, so the top plate resonated less. But this gave in to turntable rumble, so I wouldn't really recommend it. You'll find tons of information on how to improve this turntable on the web, but in stock form with the SME tonearm it is already a damn good turntable.

If you can get an electronics hobbyist to carefully replace capacitors and resolder all solder joints on the circuit board, plus clean all switches and the speed potentiometer, it would be good preventive maintenance. However it is not necessary.

 

[DimiSakis]

Your tonearm looks tasty. BUYBUYBUYBUYBUYBUY

I woudnt't suggest any mod, only to replace the foam that goes inside the springs that support the top plate. Perhaps people sell complete overhaul kits.

What I did was to remove those support springs and replace them with rubber thingies, so the top plate resonated less. But this gave in to turntable rumble, so I wouldn't really recommend it. You'll find tons of information on how to improve this turntable on the web, but in stock form with the SME tonearm it is already a damn good turntable.

If you can get an electronics hobbyist to carefully replace capacitors and resolder all solder joints on the circuit board, plus clean all switches and the speed potentiometer, it would be good preventive maintenance. However it is not necessary.

Thank you again for the advice
I must say that you have nudged me towards the 125 a bit, but still quite torn between that one and the Michell, which is also at a ridiculous price.. hopefully looking at them in person will help my decision.

 

[Mister Pig]

My choice would be the Mitchell and then the Thorens. Both are nice tables and have certain aspects that make it attractive. The price on the TD 125 is attractive and leaves a lot of money for service. If the table is unrestored you may very well consider updating the capacitors and various bits in the speed control system. You can get bits to refresh the suspension also. A rebuild is not to be unexpected. Conversely the age of the Mitchell would preclude that and bring the price closer together.

Mitchell has built tables for a long time also and have a great deal of experience to draw upon on their designs. I would think the price is quite fair given what you get. Same with the Thorens though. I would expect the suspension of the Mitchell to be a bit easier to tune and to obtain a more even vertical travel than the Thorens. The TD 125 is basically a heavy top plate on top of springs with a bit of foam to dampen it. You can get even travel on them but you need to take care to rotate the springs in their perches to balance the strong and weak sides to get even an even bounce. Not hard to do but you have to be aware of it. Secondly, the modified Rega arm is a solid design and I think has a higher performance level, but the SME 3009 is a classic and has its supporters also. You won't get consensus on what is the superior arm.

Both are fine tables, you get to pick what your budget and level of commitment are to them.

 

[flavio81]

Thank you again for the advice
I must say that you have nudged me towards the 125 a bit, but still quite torn between that one and the Michell, which is also at a ridiculous price.. hopefully looking at them in person will help my decision.

For 1600 euro versus 700 the Thorens gives more value for the money. Of course the tonearm on the Michell is also a good tonearm, in theory it's even a better tonearm. But in terms of value for the money the Thorens wins... by far.

And replace the headshell on the SME tonearm for a ceramic headshell, overhaul the horizontal bearing, maybe install an aftermarket counterweight, and it should become a great tonearm again.

 

[DimiSakis]

For 1600 euro versus 700 the Thorens gives more value for the money. Of course the tonearm on the Michell is also a good tonearm, in theory it's even a better tonearm. But in terms of value for the money the Thorens wins... by far.

And replace the headshell on the SME tonearm for a ceramic headshell, overhaul the horizontal bearing, maybe install an aftermarket counterweight, and it should become a great tonearm again.

1600 vs 700 is indeed worlds apart, but I am thinking that if I consider the additional costs that come with the Thorens (new plinth - current one looks rather bad, the improvements you suggested, some work on the electronics, a dustcover, etc) the price difference will become significantly smaller. The Gyro is also 15-20 years old, vs the 50 year old Thorens, so more maintenance is to be expected as well I guess. That said, I do like the tinkering aspect that would come with the Thorens, and appreciate the vintage look (the "made in west germany" text is a very nice touch IMO )

Decisions, decisions...

 

[ctjetta]

Thorens. Just sayin'.

 

[adnick]

Michell Gyro first, TD 125 a close second……

VR
Andy

 

[flavio81]

1600 vs 700 is indeed worlds apart, but I am thinking that if I consider the additional costs that come with the Thorens (new plinth - current one looks rather bad, the improvements you suggested, some work on the electronics, a dustcover, etc) the price difference will become significantly smaller. The Gyro is also 15-20 years old, vs the 50 year old Thorens, so more maintenance is to be expected as well I guess. That said, I do like the tinkering aspect that would come with the Thorens, and appreciate the vintage look (the "made in west germany" text is a very nice touch IMO )

Decisions, decisions...

Wait...

The TD125, stock, with a stock 3009 tonearm, sounds wonderful with a good cart.

It's not as if you NEED to modify it to sound good. It just lends itself to modifications.

 

[Beobloke]

Frankly, the choice of the three models you've outlined is easy, as far as I'm concerned - the Gyro is the dearest but will absolutely walk over the other two in performance terms.

The Michael-Gyro-tacky-thing leave it for the people who value aesthetics over anything else.

That's an interesting and very uncommon point of view! What didn't you like about it? It's certainly requires patience in terms of setup but its engineering is absolutely first class.

 

[flavio81]

That's an interesting and very uncommon point of view! What didn't you like about it? It's certainly requires patience in terms of setup but its engineering is absolutely first class.

Don't take it seriously, simply the difference in price makes (imo) the Thorens a much better buy.
I often find turntables that aren't designed to look like a regular, convenient turntables... tacky.

 

[nailer]

I'd go with the Thorens and get it a killer cartridge.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

I would go Thorens TD-125/SME 3009 II myself. An excellent combo, performs superbly. No IC chips in the speed control (all discrete transistor). Well built, maintainable. The arm alone's worth the money.

 

[RFP]

I absolutely love my Gyrodec... It's fitted with a SME Mk IV arm; a great combination. Yep, it "looks" great, and *sounds* just as great!