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Help: Marantz 2100 Lights

Twinhit

Active Member
Help: Marantz 2100 Pointer Light

Hi,
there are basically 3 light circuits in the Marantz 2100
The frequency dial and the meters, then Stereo and the station frequency pointer needle.

I have the meter and frequency dial lights working but the pointer needle and stereo lights do not work.

Don't know the value of the Stereo indicator lamp.

It appears the station pointer has a resistor, incased in heat shrink tubing, of some sort in, on one side of it's simple circuit.
Can anyone offer info or advice on these two items?

MarantzNeedleIndicatorLamp.jpg
 
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Thanks Bob,

I bit the bullet and removed the heatshrink.
It appears as follows (right to left)

<---- to LED lead ---- Blue, Grey, Black, Gold -----> Hot terminal


Resistance = 68Ω
Tolerance = +/- 5% (according this page http://www.smpspowersupply.com/resistor/resistorcolorcode.html)
Voltage = 7.5 VAC*

*Voltage readings are 7.5 VAC on the pointer lamp circuit.
This reading is taken the Multimeter probes on the LED circuit
between the resistor and LED on the + conductor, and between the
LED and - Terminal lug on the circuit board.
 
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Forgot to add...
It appears that the resistor itself is ok, so... my guess is that the LED light is burned out.
 
Does the existing pointer light look like the black wire one in my picture? :scratch2:

marantz_lamps_20090221_02.jpg
 
Does the existing pointer light look like the black wire one in my picture? :scratch2:

marantz_lamps_20090221_02.jpg

Thank you for your reply.
No sir, this lamp doesn't look like any of those.
It apparently sits inside a black flat and square housing that houses the light itself, and the illumination is transferred to the pointer, which I think is what
they would call a light-pipe.
I cannot even see the bulb, itself.

There's someone on ebay selling something he claims to be a pointer bulb, but the voltages don't match to what I have. I am guessing it would be much closer in size than the bulbs on your image and it may still be too big.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marantz-cla...pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cc27af19d
 
Thank you for your reply.
No sir, this lamp doesn't look like any of those.
It apparently sits inside a black flat and square housing that houses the light itself, and the illumination is transferred to the pointer, which I think is what
they would call a light-pipe.
I cannot even see the bulb, itself.

There's someone on ebay selling something he claims to be a pointer bulb, but the voltages don't match to what I have. I am guessing it would be much closer in size than the bulbs on your image and it may still be too big.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marantz-cla...pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cc27af19d



Ok, well...
I removed the bulb from it's pointer housing. It's very small.
about .15" dia x .20" long with wired leads. my search returns call
them "grain of wheat" bulbs or subminiature bulbs.
These are similar to some of those lights used in model train layouts.

Also,
I removed the "Stereo" bulb housing but cannot remove the bulb without risking damage to the now dried out rubber housing.
Any leads for replacement parts for this housing or is it going to be a fabricate your own new housing affair?

What say you?
 
Anyone know the source for a replacement pointer light?

Assuming your reading of 7.5vac is correct, it's no problem for me to fabricate an 8v/60ma/3mm with 20" wires on it, those eBay lamps seem like they won't last long if they're in fact rated 6v. Just my $.02 on this, e-mail me if you need more info, Dave.

I just looked at your picture again, that pointer lamp sure looks about the 4.75mm diameter of my black wire lead lamp, I bet mine is correct!!
 
Assuming your reading of 7.5vac is correct, it's no problem for me to fabricate an 8v/60ma/3mm with 20" wires on it, those eBay lamps seem like they won't last long if they're in fact rated 6v. Just my $.02 on this, e-mail me if you need more info, Dave.

I just looked at your picture again, that pointer lamp sure looks about the 4.75mm diameter of my black wire lead lamp, I bet mine is correct!!

Well,
Thanks dave, sorry, but I had done some homework picked up the bulbs at the local model railroad shop before I could reply. They are 1.5 40mA bulbs. I also picked up a 120 and a 150 Ohm resistor and wired it up. I ran the 120 for the pointer and the 150 for the stereo. Because the bulb was so small, I wired two, in series, for the stereo and and packed some aluminum foil into the Stereo housing for refelectivity and added some baking paper for diffusion. So far so good. No problems yet.
IF anything, if these don't work out, I will be in touch for your services, when able.
Thanks again.

Hmm.... I wonder if I could run a model railroad locomotive off of the stereo light circuit. ;)
This way I could watch the choo choo roll by when I hear Johnny Cash sing Folsom Prison Blues in Stereo.
 
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Well,
Thanks dave, sorry, but I had done some homework picked up the bulbs at the local model railroad shop before I could reply. They are 1.5 40mA bulbs. I also picked up a 120 and a 150 Ohm resistor and wired it up. I ran the 120 for the pointer and the 150 for the stereo. Because the bulb was so small, I wired two, in series, for the stereo and and packed some aluminum foil into the Stereo housing for refelectivity and added some baking paper for diffusion. So far so good. No problems yet.
IF anything, if these don't work out, I will be in touch for your services, when able.
Thanks again.

Hmm.... I wonder if I could run a model railroad locomotive off of the stereo light circuit. ;)
This way I could watch the choo choo roll by when I hear Johnny Cash sing Folsom Prison Blues in Stereo.


I take it nobody thought that was funny.
How about "One Piece At A Time"?
You know... like what they say at the AA meetings?
 
I take it nobody thought that was funny.
How about "One Piece At A Time"?
You know... like what they say at the AA meetings?

The people that cooked their FM circuits might not see humour in it, that's the only critical lamp in most receivers, here's a quote from FM tuner info, Dave;

A cautionary note: It turns out that many stereo chips drive lamps directly. If you use the wrong replacement bulb, you may smoke the MPX chip, and many are really hard to find. So we want it to be clear that people should not put a 300 milliamp bulb in the stereo lamp area which takes 30 milliamp. Bob explains: "Here's the skinny on the stereo chip burnout problem - it affects the "stereo" indicator light only. This would be the one that lights when the MPX chip detects a 19 kHz pilot and the tuner goes into stereo mode. It is seen on tuners made before about 1976 or so, as later models usually used LEDs for this circuit, even though ordinary lamps were still used for lighting meters and the front panel. The MPX chip uses an internal circuit to "switch" the stereo light pin to ground when in stereo operation. So the stereo lamp on the front panel has a positive DC voltage applied to one lead, all the time, and the other lead is grounded by the MPX chip. If the incorrect lamp is used, too much current goes through the switch circuit in the MPX chip, and the MPX chip overheats and fails."

:tears:
 
The people that cooked their FM circuits might not see humour in it, that's the only critical lamp in most receivers, here's a quote from FM tuner info, Dave;

A cautionary note: It turns out that many stereo chips drive lamps directly. If you use the wrong replacement bulb, you may smoke the MPX chip, and many are really hard to find. So we want it to be clear that people should not put a 300 milliamp bulb in the stereo lamp area which takes 30 milliamp. Bob explains: "Here's the skinny on the stereo chip burnout problem - it affects the "stereo" indicator light only. This would be the one that lights when the MPX chip detects a 19 kHz pilot and the tuner goes into stereo mode. It is seen on tuners made before about 1976 or so, as later models usually used LEDs for this circuit, even though ordinary lamps were still used for lighting meters and the front panel. The MPX chip uses an internal circuit to "switch" the stereo light pin to ground when in stereo operation. So the stereo lamp on the front panel has a positive DC voltage applied to one lead, all the time, and the other lead is grounded by the MPX chip. If the incorrect lamp is used, too much current goes through the switch circuit in the MPX chip, and the MPX chip overheats and fails."

:tears:

Thanks, D., that warning makes perfect sense.
Can you provide the correct "Stereo" bulb and how much?

As it stands, I have a 120Ω resistor + a 68Ω resistor soldered together in series. Then, I have two (2) 1.5V 40mA bulbs wired in series after that.

or

(+)--->120Ω R ---> 68Ω R -----> (1.5V 40mA bulb) -----> (1.5V 40mA bulb) ---> (-)

That's how I have that wired.

Did I put a 300mA bulb in the circuit?
No.
Am I exceeding the 30mA?
Yes, I believe I am.
If I removed one of the 1.5V 40mA bulbs, I am still over, by 10mA.

Whatever the case, I won't use this set up for the stereo.
Thanks for that critical info. I certainly don't want to blow the MPX.
No worries, though, it still works the last I checked.

:thmbsp:
 
Assuming your reading of 7.5vac is correct, it's no problem for me to fabricate an 8v/60ma/3mm with 20" wires on it, those eBay lamps seem like they won't last long if they're in fact rated 6v. Just my $.02 on this, e-mail me if you need more info, Dave.

I just looked at your picture again, that pointer lamp sure looks about the 4.75mm diameter of my black wire lead lamp, I bet mine is correct!!

(This reply goes back to the pointer bulb for the 2100.)

"Presumed" original pointer bulb
Physical dimensions:

The 4.75mm dia. bulb "may" fit in the pointer housing, but
there is a problem to consider.

For future reference

The pointer itself is what they call a light pipe.
A lightpipe is a kind of fiber-optics.
It is a clear plexiglas or lexan or similar plastic component.
In the Marantz 2100 model, it is either coupled to red lens or dyed red on the top end. Then it is glued to a small black plastic housing which is held in place by four small tangs on the stamped metal pointer/tuner cord assembly plate which slides left and right the "black steel tuner pointer guide track".

When I had to replace the pointer bulb, I had to remove the aluminum face plate, top cover, tuner dial. It is recommended that you insert a piece of cloth, napkin or paper between the pointer (behind the pointer) and the
upper tuner dial plate flange up and around the horizontally oriented flat bare
metal strip which the top cover-to-chassis' two front screws are fastened. - doing this avoids the risk of rubbing the clear plastic pointer against the sharp edge of the that flanged upper edge and the flat bare sheet metal top cover chassis strip. (Warning: IF you nick or scratch the clear pointer, there will be a glow on the dial plate behind that pointer.)

To remove the pointer from the pointer/tunercord assembly plate or "P/TAP":

1) tune the pointer to the middle of the dial plate.
2) insert protective cloth or paper as described above.
3) gently lift the pointer up and tilt back, pushing the P/TAP back and just off the black guide track so it clears the "tuner pointer guide track" or "TPGT".
Note: provided your tuner's cord is in good shape, you should be able to do this without breaking the cord, (something, you definitely don't want to do).
4) With the P/TAP off the track, note the clear plastic track gasket inside of the P/TAP's folded flange. (Do NOT remove it and remember that the plastic has to be on both the top and bottom side of the "TPGT". This allows the P/TAP to slide freely on the TPGT. Without it, the pointer will be jittery as you move the tuner as the P/TAP is snagging on the track.)
NOTE: It is NOT necessary to remove the cord from the P/TAP.

5) Remove the small moulded plastic pointer black box from the P/TAP by gently pulling back two clamping tangs till they just clear the black box.
(Once removed, the light should just come right out.)
NOTE: Those tangs are very fragile as bending metal causes metal fatigue, two light replacements sessions almost guarantees a third service will definitely result in damage of one or more of the P/TAP sheet metal's pointer clamping tangs. See P/TAP Solution Note Below

6) Remove bulb from the housing and reverse the steps above.

P/TAP Solution Note:
I have used a 1.5 40mA bulb wired in series to a 220Ω resistor in the place of the original 68Ω resistor with reasonable success. As of this writing, the bulb has not burned out after approximately 6 hours of service. I am still monitoring this specific fix for durability. Average life of the bulbs are 1000 hours.

Bulb Physical Dimensions:
.15" Diameter.
.20" Long

Note:
a) This bulb is smaller than the original bulb and will easily slide in and out of the black pointer housing's bulb feed-through hole. It CAN be tied securely using very fine wire such as a scrap of insulated 30 AWG. wire fed through the bulb's twisted wire leads and wrapped around the P/TAP and the black box twice and simply twisted on itself, no knots neccessary.

b) This bulb is probably not as bright using a 220Ω resistor as it might be using a 150Ω resistor. My first test used 120Ω and the bulb burned out within 10 minutes. I "think" 150Ω will hold up longer, but how long, I don't know.
180Ω may be the perfect size for this specific combination.
For my second test, I used a 220Ω resistor which is only barely noticeably warm to the touch after 10 mins continuous use. I can pinch this resistor without burning my finger. the previous 120Ω was considerably hotter.

Also, I used a piece of aluminum foil cut from a Coffee Can Seal to form a mirror to help brighten the lamp cavity.

I'll update this reply should there be a reason to do so.
IF this works out, I would recommend using this approach over what was original only because of the fragililty of the small P/TAP clamping tangs which
would be harder to replace than the bulb.
The only other recourse would be to enlarge the pointer lamp housing access hole.

PointerIlustration.jpg


M2100_Pointer.jpg
 
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You might be OK, the last guy with a 2100 bought a red/white wire 8v/60ma red/white wire lamp for his, even though you said yours didn't look the same, I never saw a picture of what you removed so it's hard for me to determine what you pulled out. Was there anything marked on the old lamp? Picture available?? :scratch2:
 
You might be OK, the last guy with a 2100 bought a red/white wire 8v/60ma red/white wire lamp for his, even though you said yours didn't look the same, I never saw a picture of what you removed so it's hard for me to determine what you pulled out. Was there anything marked on the old lamp? Picture available?? :scratch2:

D,
In the very first picture, you can see the red and white wire harness that goes to the Stereo lamp in the foreground.
When I said mine didn't look like what you had in your pic, I was talking about the pointer light and not the stereo lamp.
Apologies for the confusion.

Stereo lamp:
Before removal, I noticed one of the wires had come loose and easily pulled off the bulb.
The stereo bulb was in the, now dried out and hardened, rubber housing pretty good. I had carefully used an xacto knife, prodding between the metal
base and the rubber to break the grip the housing had on the bulb.
It was in there REAL good. Hard to say whether it was glued in or not. I don't think so. But it is my guess that it could be the original bulb. I am encouraged to believe this further, as the +/- "wire pin" terminals on the stereo's main board are nicely wrapped with the red & white stereo lamp wire.

I've examined the bulb a couple of times and couldn't find any markings whatsoever, anywhere.
Physical Dimensions w/o metal base:
.183" Dia. x .330" L
or
4.6mm Dia. x 8.4mm L

.585" (14.85mm) OAL w/ metal base
 
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OK, sounds like you did have an 8v/60ma with red/white wires in there originally, plenty available if ever needed, Dave. :thmbsp:
 
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