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Help! My Thorens TD 145 slides when I lower the tonearm at the beginning of the record

Faustino78rm

New Member
I'm restoring my Thorens TD 145, I lubricated and cleaned everything. I have an Elac ESG 792 mounted in it, with it's original stylus. I adjusted the tracking force accordingly, VTF 1.7 grams and Anti-Skate at 1.7 too, I don't have a pretty accurate gauge to set the tracking force neither a flat record to set the anti-skate, I'm relying on the Thorens Markings.
Does someone know how to fix this? It happens on every record.
 
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Hi @Faustino78rm!

This is not an uncommon issue, reason being that there is a raised area, a lip of sorts, on most every record made, the purpose of which is to keep the records from touching one another when playing multiple (a stack) records as one lays on top of the other.

Before you get too involved, there are some pretty easy things to check beginning with making sure the turntable is level. Put your level on the platter (or even better, an old but perfectly flat record that you don't mind if it gets scuffed up a bit should that happen). Make sure that it is not tilted in any direction. Put the level out towards the edge of the platter or record in the 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions and then adjust your turntable feet until it is perfectly level. With my TD160, which is similar to your 145, there are no adjustments with the feet themselves so some shims are necessary, which you can make from small pieces of cardboard inserted under the foot (feet) where necessary to get things right.

Then, make sure your tonearm appears to be level with the record surface when it is playing. Is the tonearm much higher at the rear or at the front where the headshell is located? Adjust this by lowering or raising the base of the tonearm. Instructions for this can be had in the service manual, or someone here with one of those might chime in and provide the information. Look at the cantilever on your cartridge.....is the suspension weak and allowing the cartridge body to ride too close to the record surface? Is it too stiff and making things ride too high? If either of these conditions appear to be so, then it may be time for a new stylus and I don't know the availability of one for that cartridge but you can easily find out. Just go to a site like LP Gear or similar and see if you can get a new one. If not, you might need a new cartridge altogether.
You say "original stylus" so we don't know the exact condition of it. It could simply be so worn that it is not catching the groove properly as it lands. Do you have another cartridge that you could try on there to see if it gives you the same problem? If so, try it.

Equally likely it could be that the cartridge is not positioned properly in the headshell. For this issue, you can find a suitable protractor (Google which one is to be used with your turntable) with a graph on it to make sure the cantilever is in the proper position. Some of these are available online that you can print out yourself. If the zenith setting is off by much, this can cause or at least exacerbate the problem you're having.

If the azimuth is off, this can also create this problem as the stylus comes down at an angle other than 90 degrees and naturally wants to slide one way or the other. Azimuth can be checked with a mirror and a magnifying glass and good lighting. If you drop the stylus on the mirror and view it from the front, it should make a perfect "hourglass" image by reflecting itself, the point being the center of the "hourglass." You will likely have to play around with this until you get the hang of it, but you'll see once you start experimenting with it. If azimuth is off, unfortunately with that tonearm you do not have an adjustment for that and you're back to making shims to place under one or the other side of the headshell between it and the top of the cartridge until you are perpendicular on the mirror.

The other issue that comes to mind is antiskate, and even though you have said you've set it to the same value as your tracking force, it remains to be seen whether or not that is an accurate setting. Since antiskating tends to pull the stylus away from the center of the record, you can imagine that if there is not enough, the stylus will more readily be pulled into the record as it lands and hits that "slope" at the very outside edge. You might try just playing with that, increasing it a bit to see if that solves the problem but I would only do that once I've checked everything else mentioned so far.

After that, there are a few more things to look into and making sure that the tonearm is not dropping too fast would be one of those. If it drops too fast, sometimes that can create an added force on impact that tends to cause the stylus to "jump" into the record as you are describing. The fix for this is more complicated because it involves the lift and the damping fluid in it. More on that later if it becomes a necessary problem to address.

As a last resort, just use the lift lever to drop the stylus very slowly on the beginning of the record and in a bit farther, just before the modulated grooves where the angle of the "lip" is not as great or non-existent altogether......that's how many get around this matter of the stylus sliding into the beginning grooves of the record.

Let us know how it goes, you will probably get a lot more suggestions as well......I'm sure I've not covered everything here but at least you have a place to start.....carry on, amigo. What part of the world are you in?
 
Hello Fishead!
Your reply was incredible — the attention to detail was amazing. I followed your instructions step by step and everything worked perfectly. I end it up buying a new Nagaoka MP-110 and set it up using your guidance, and it came out beautifully. I can’t thank you enough.

I also ended up getting an alignment gauge just to double-check everything, and you absolutely nailed it.

I’m from Spain and still pretty new to vinyl. I started collecting about three years ago. I’m 19 and really into original pressings and audiophile-quality records. I mostly collect jazz, but also some rock.

Sorry for the late reply! By the way, which part of the world are you from? And how big is your collection?
 
Hey @Faustino78rm, I am glad things worked out for you amigo. I'm from the Land Of Enchantment, aka New Mexico, USA. Nice to hear that you are paying attention to pressings and learning about records. You are early into your journey and there is much enjoyment ahead! I have about 3,000 records.
 
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