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Help on P mount choice

GPJeff

GPJeff

Super Member
I'm looking to upgrade my SL-OL1 linear tracker's cart and/or stylus.

The two options that I've come down to are:
1) Keep the Technics EPS-22 (P-22) cart and replace the stylus with a Jico SAS.
2) Use my AT92E P mount and purchase a Jico SAS stylus for it.

Either way the cost will be about the same.

Another question, will the P-22 cart & P-23 cart use the same stylus?
 
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I'd say P22 with SAS

As far as i know there is no SAS available for the AT92E !! If you have found it, you'll find many of us would like to know where is it on sale!
 
I'm with Flavio on the Technics. Those are pretty darned good cartridges with a laminated core, something typically restricted to pretty high end stuff.

John
 
I had a Shibata on the P22 before that I bought from Turntable needles and it was awesome. Good detail and the LOWEST surface noise that I've heard from a turntable.

I broke the damn thing one night fiddling around with the table.
 
The Technics line of MM p-mount cartridges is very intriguing technically. At the moment a typical Technics p-mount goes for cheap, even if NOS, and is more than well worth a try. On paper it has all the good stuff, and the P22S that originally came with the SL-QL1 has this fascinating boron-tube cantilever plumbing with a T-junction stuck to the end, with the diamond glued into the downward-facing hole of the T. Kind of a klunky boron-tube attempt at a Sonus Dimension 5 stylus. I thought so much of the basic design Technics came up with for their new close-n-play linear trackers I got an SAS stylus for the P22.

Anyone else tried the SAS/Technics-P-Mount combination?
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wualta said:
The Technics line of cartridges is very intriguing technically. On paper it has all the good stuff, and the P22S that originally came with the SL-QL1 has this fascinating boron-tube cantilever plumbing with a T-junction stuck to the end, with the diamond glued into the downward-facing hole. Kind of a klunky boron-tube attempt at a Sonus Dimension 5 stylus.

I wanted to hear what the SAS was doing to the sound, so I selected another Technics cartridge with significantly lower inductance (I don't recall the model number, but I'll get to the building where the TT is later and edit it in)-- Technics p-mount bodies aren't all alike; they have a two-tier inductance thing going, though I can't figure out why, since the styli are much the same specswise below the TOTL models. Anyway, I made this switch to make sure the top end was clearly audible.

However, even with this precaution, in my system the SAS/P### was mildly disappointing, as if there was a very gradual treble rolloff. Very nice and smooth and mellow, but flicking back and forth from 22k to 100k loading made no audible difference. Very odd. But smooooooth. I repeat, that's how it worked that day in my system with my QL1 (of which I am inordinately fond, by the way).

That was just one experiment; I'm not done futzing with the SAS in the QL-1, so maybe there will be further surprises.

Anyone else tried the SAS/Technics-P-Mount combination?
Click to expand...

I wonder whether you'd have the same impression using the Shibata that (apparently) JICO no longer offers but that TTN still has in stock.

John
 
boreas said:
I wonder whether you'd have the same impression using the Shibata that (apparently) JICO no longer offers but that TTN still has in stock.
John
Click to expand...
I have had that very stylus square in my sights for awhile now. Just trying to justify it in the welter of appetites which I call my "mind". UPDATE: I bought the cheaper HE version instead and am very happy with it.
 
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Yes, I have now acquired-- cheap-- about 8 Technics MM p-mount bodies and carts of this style...
Technics P328 cartridge.jpg
TECHNICS/NATIONAL/PANASONIC EPC-P328

....and so far they're all mechanically the same, in the sense that you can pop and swap styli at will. I believe all the MM bodies are the same electrically as well.

310MC? you lucky devil.
 
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Quick update: Today I plugged my Technics P328 with the SAS into this handy Yamaha p-mount headshell/adapter for pivoting straight arms.. Why use this particular P328 for the job? because mine is a factory mistake, with 265mH coils instead of the usual 365. I wanted to boost the tippy-top frequencies, the better to hear any missteps the SAS might make in this application.
1.JPG

As for the Yamaha p-mount headshell, it's very handy for swapping out p-mount cartridges in a straight-arm turntable quickly. Easier access than reaching inside a close-n-play linear tracker, and 3-axis alignment is [more or less] automatic. Literally plug and play.

Anyway, with this combination in the Onkyo CP-1030F, it sounded the way I expected-- too bright (and not just because of the lower inductance). Aside from being too bright, it sounded great, as it should when the stylus costs three times as much as the turntable and cartridge body combined. I have ways of dealing with the brightness, so this is a win.
 
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I got mine via online auction. One was $26, the other $15. This Yamaha is the only headshell of its kind I've ever seen. Probably it was never originally sold as a separate retail item but only as a replacement part for certain TTs (eg, Yamaha's PF-20, 30 and 50, where it was one of two supplied headshells, one for half-inch, the other for p-mount).

I should point out that the flat on the connector plug is not on top, where many straight arms expect to find one. In the Onkyo's arm, this wasn't a problem (the electrical connector is the same), but other arms might put up a fuss. This also means there's some slop in the vertical alignment, so azimuth must be checked after you install this headshell. Simply rotate the connector a little and lock it in place with the setscrew.
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Technics EPC-P533
11.jpg

Many of the Technics p-mount cartridges seem to be the same with only cosmetic differences. This P533 (just arrived today) seems a cut above-- the cantilever looks slimmer than the run-of-the-mill ellipticals. Which makes some sort of sense, since some (all?) of the top styli in the non-MC Technics p-mount line are also 500-series models, with similar cosmetics, plus graphics that make it easy to tell if you're buying an original or an aftermarket stylus.

It's still a bushed ("bonded") diamond, so there's nothing exotic about the P533, but the sound does seem to partake more of the superior construction of the MM Technics p-mount cartridge internals. Which is a nerd way of saying if you're considering a Technics p-mount cartridge, look for one of the 500 series. If all you can find are bodies, there's always the spendy but superb JICO SAS stylus. If you find the funky boron P22 stylus, that'll work too.
 
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wualta said:
I got mine via online auction. One was $26, the other $15. This Yamaha is the only headshell of its kind I've ever seen. Probably it was never originally sold as a separate retail item but only as a replacement part for certain TTs (eg, Yamaha's PF-20, 30 and 50, where it was one of two supplied headshells, one for half-inch, the other for p-mount).

I should point out that the flat on the connector plug is not on top, where many straight arms expect to find one. In the Onkyo's arm, this wasn't a problem (the electrical connector is the same), but other arms might put up a fuss. This also means there's some slop in the vertical alignment, so azimuth must be checked after you install this headshell. Simply rotate the connector a little and lock it in place with the setscrew.
.
Click to expand...

That is diffidently a kool option, I have 3 Yamaha TT's, boy can I swap cartridges around at will. Both headshells came with the first Yamaha I bought last year, and that got me stuck on Yamaha. The 1/2in shells can be on the expensive side. I picked up 3x of the P mount on flea bay, one was $5, nobody wanted it.
 
kcblair said:
... nobody wanted it.
Click to expand...
The ideal auction item!

I should point out that there's no guarantee that the overhang and offset angle will be correct on a random non-Yama arm. Due diligence is called for, as always in AnalogLand.
 
Just a quick questions for you SAS-aholics....

When the SAS is fitted to a P22 family cartridge, is the location and angle of the needle correct for p-Mount?

I recently got around to thoroughly checking my Shure p-mount SAS, and the needle is 1mm forward of where it should be - which noticeably alters the alignment!

Curious to know if the P22 has a similar issue (I have a NOS still unopened EPS202 stylus so I have not plumped for a SAS...)

bye for now

David
 
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