help - Thorens TD165 suddenly started skipping and dirty sound

[dfreitag]

Hi everyone

My late dad left me his Thorens TD165 and I have been using it for the past 5 years or so. It has a Pickering v-15 micro IV.

Since I've been using it the sound has been never crystal-clear, but it was quite decent and reliable nonetheless.


Until one afternoon a couple of days ago - when it started playing quite a dirty sound and skipping, too.

I adjusted the weight on the back side (sorry I don't know the terminology), bringing it closer inwards, and that helped with the skipping, but the sounds is still quite dirty, and it still skips from time to time.


Can you please share some advice with me on how to fix this?

As you can imagine, it's a very sentimental item, and quite important to me to have this working. ;(

Many thanks for your input - much appreciated!!


PS. attaching a couple of quick shots for your reference.
PS. Links to two audio samples
audio sample 01 https://whyp.it/tracks/247300/audio-sample-01?token=K2mbB
audio sample 02 https://whyp.it/tracks/247301/audio-sample-02?token=3BqKe

 

[MuseChaser]

Hard to diagnose. A couple ideas...

1. Have you cleaned the stylus (needle)? If not, and you don't have a stylus brush, grab one and give that a shot.

2. Do you have a stylus force gauge? The digital gauges are actually pretty inexpensive these days and are worth picking up. I don't know if your counterweight is the same style as the one on my Thorens TD166MkII; is there a wheel with weight (in grams) markings on the front of the counterweight that can be rotated independently of the counterweight, provided you hold the counterweight still? If so, turn the counterweight until the tonearm "floats"..meaning fully balanced, neither falling and resting on the record not raising to the top of its travel. Do this without the antiskate (the little tiny weight on the thread across the two arms in the back) attached, although no biggie if you leave it there at least to get started. Once you find that balance point, hold the counterweight there while you turn the dial with the markings so that it "0" is indicated. Look up the recommended tracking weight for your stylus/cartridge, then dial that in by rotating the entire counterweight assembly clockwise (as viewed from the stylus end of the tonearm) until that weight is indicated. Best to check it with a force gauge at this point. Then put the antiskate back on, with the loop on the rightmost arm and the rest of the thread draped over the left most arm, and both the loop and the drape in the same slots of their respective arms. The third notch is usually an OK place to start. The best setting is determined by whatever your tracking force is. See if you can find the turntable manual online.

3. It's entirely possible it's time for a new stylus.

4. Check the cartridge alignment. Searching this and other forums will yield printable alignment aids and procedures.

5. Carefully check the connections of the four tiny wires to the posts on the back of the cartridge. They can work loose, require cleaning, or slight snugging up. Be gentle.

Just some places to start....

 

[gadget73]

+1 on checking the stylus. Sounds like its got a dust bunny under it. The adjustments rarely move on their own.

 

[dfreitag]

Hi both, thanks for your input.

First thing I checked was for dust / fuzz on the stylus - but that wasn't it, unfortunately. The attached photos are very recent, so you would be able to see that, right?

I'll do proper checks as per your recommendations @MuseChaser

But/And in case I wanted to get a new stylus, as both of you seem to suggest - could you perhaps recommend a new one and/or where to buy one from?

Many thanks!

 

[Tonoje]

could you perhaps recommend a new one and/or where to buy one from?

That partly depends on which country you're in.

Experimentally adjusting the counterweight is not a good way to fix a sound issue. Did you know what the tracking force was before you adjusted, after you adjusted, and whether in either case it was within the recommended range for your cartridge? Even if so, it's probably not the first thing people would look at for your issue.

Also, you needn't limit yourself to replacing the stylus for your cartridge. For not much more than what it would cost you, there may be other cartridges that would be suitable for your turntable. You would, though, have to set it up correctly. If you haven't done that before, it's not difficult as such, but requires a little effort and patience. It's definitely worth buying a digital gauge: in the US, those are available for between $10 and $20 and will get the job done, as you won't need to float (balance) the tonearm and then set the force using the turntable's own dial.

 

[lini]

Many thanks for your input - much appreciated!!

Especially from your last pic it would seem, as if there was hardly any clearance between the cartridge bottom and the record surface - so if you're using the correct tracking force, the cantilever suspension might not be good anymore. And I've you've been using that needle for five years or even more, it's also quite likely, that the diamond is worn. Hence I'd suggest to consider a replacement needle for that Pickering (provided, that the are good ones - don't know...) or a new cartridge.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[dfreitag]

Hi again, thank you for your valuable input!

Have already ordered a force gauge and stylus brush, as per your recommendations.


Re ordering a new stylus/cartridge I'm in the UK - any good / reasonable sellers here that you know?

Also, how do I find out which ones are actually compatible with the turntable?

Lastly, (quite obviously) not an expert at all on all this, so would be great to understand a bit better about replacing stylus vs replacing cartridge, so any info and tips on that front would be hugely appreciated!


Many thanks again & Have a good start to your weeks!

 

[jrtrent]

Hi again, thank you for your valuable input!

Have already ordered a force gauge and stylus brush, as per your recommendations.


Re ordering a new stylus/cartridge I'm in the UK - any good / reasonable sellers here that you know?

Not being in the UK, I'll have to leave that to others.

Also, how do I find out which ones are actually compatible with the turntable?

If someone is able to suggest a good dealer, that dealer should be able to answer that question. A brochure about your turntable said it has a tracking force range of 0-3 grams. I've owned a number of different Pickering cartridges, but never a V-15 Micro IV. Like most Pickering cartridges, the V-15 Micro IV could accept a variety of styli, which had different stylus shapes (conical or elliptical) and different recommended tracking force ranges. Not in your neck of the woods, but the webpage below does list the V-15 Micro IV replacement styli along with their stylus shapes and tracking forces.

Product Detail

Pickering is long out of business, but if someone can suggest a dealer, they may have access to 3rd-party styli of decent quality. 3rd-party styli don't always match the tracking force range of the original stylus, so it's best to ask.

Lastly, (quite obviously) not an expert at all on all this, so would be great to understand a bit better about replacing stylus vs replacing cartridge, so any info and tips on that front would be hugely appreciated!

Replacing a stylus is as easy as pulling out the old one and inserting the new. Replacing the cartridge is a little more work, but is easy to do if you still have the setup gauge and assorted washers, screws, and spacers that the TD 165 came with. The gauge helps you correctly set overhang and choose the right spacer for correct vertical tracking angle. If you don't have the manual, there is one at this site:

https://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6-pics/TT%20manuals/Thorens/TD%20165.pdf

My older brother has had the similar Thorens TD 146 since 1985. Over the years, and in moves from house to house plus time spent at my nephew's home, the manuals and all little accessories were lost. Fortunately, it still has an AT95-family cartridge properly installed, and AT still makes original equipment styli for it.

Many thanks again & Have a good start to your weeks!

Best wishes in finding what you need to get good sound out of your TD 165!

 

[Tonoje]

A possible cartridge candidate is an AT3600L from AliExpress. Discussed in considerable detail here:

$11 Chinese AT3600L Thread Mk. II - Champagne sound on a Beer budget!

After the previous thread met an unfortunate demise, I figured it would be a waste to let all the info just vanish completely. Champagne Sound for Beer Money? Huh? For those of you that don't already know, it's possible to source an Audio-Technica AT3600L 1/2" mount cartridge with a .6 mil...

audiokarma.org

At current prices, maybe a shade over £10 in your money. At that price, even if it's not your main, it might be worth keeping one or two of these around as spares.

 

[dfreitag]

Quick update from my side.

I ended up buying an AT3600L cartridge and stylus online for around £22 (link).


Installed it without any issues at all - super easy, everything fitted perfectly (I reused the original screws and spacer).

AND IT SOUNDS AMAZING!!! My god, what a crystal clear sound it now produces, I am absolutely blown away.

Clearly, I had no idea how it could/should sound like.. Loving it so much now, so it was a blessing in disguise, and apparently long overdue!


THANKS EVERYONE for your input and advice, really very much appreciated, you guys are great!

 

[jrtrent]

Quick update from my side.
I ended up buying an AT3600L cartridge and stylus online for around £22 . . .
Clearly, I had no idea how it could/should sound like.. Loving it so much now, so it was a blessing in disguise, and apparently long overdue!

For nearly three years, I've used an AT3600L as found in AT's LP60X turntable, and I've loved it. Styli do wear out, and my LP60X manual recommended replacing it every 400 hours of use. For me, typically playing about three albums daily, that has meant a new stylus every six months. A friend of mine, who only plays a few albums a couple nights a week, might not hit 400 hours for two years. Keep the great sound by just being aware of your usage and replacing the stylus accordingly. By the way, I always like keeping an extra stylus on hand in case of accident or in case my dealer is out of stock when replacement is due.