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Help with DAC's

delfam

delfam

Active Member
I don't know much about DAC's, but currently I'm using a cheap sony dvd player to play my cd's. I was looking to pick up a better CD player for around $200, something vintage maybe.

Would it be better to just get a DAC and use the dvd player to run it or just get a stand alone cd player like a kyocera or something?

Again, don't know much about DAC's so what I'm saying might not even be right.
 
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I'm in the group that says a "good" DAC will improve the sound of most CD/DVD players.

It really depends on your budget. Below a certain cost, buying a new dedicated CD player may be a more economical option.

So, what's your budget?
 
well, I was looking into getting an older vintage cd player or dac so maybe only around $100. I'm in college so don't have to much money. Best bang for my buck.
 
was hoping to find something on barter town, but I guess I'll start looking around at stores.
 
Every iPod, CD player, DVD player, computer mother board etc. has an onboard dac. The thing is though that the onboard dac isn't always as good as standalone dac. So what does a dac do? In a nutshell it converts the 0s and 1s of a digital signal into an analog signal. Should be pretty self explanatory how a dac can be a huge bottle neck then. Dacs are getting cheaper and cheaper every day. You can take something like the $169 Audioengine D1, plug it into your computer via USB for computer audio, and also plug the optical out from a CD/DVD player into it. That way, the D1 does all the processing. I use an Audioengine D1 with my computer and with a Playstation 2. That renderings the Playstation 2 little more then a transport. It just reads the numbers off the disk and that's not hard to do.

I use the D1 as an example because it's the one I have but there are other dacs out there in the $200 range that could do wonders for computer and CD playback, all in one package usually.

Unless you don't use a computer for any kind of listening buying a decent standalone CD player might be more economical but on the other hand a nice little dac could be an all around digital audio solution in one box.

EDIT: Looking for vintage CD players could be a good idea but it's counter intuitive to think that they'd possibly sound better then new CD players. Maybe a vintage TOTL Cd player will sound better then a brand new BOTL Cd player but that's not a question of vintage, that's a question of quality and getting what you pay for. One problem I found with older CDPs is that not all of them play CDRs.

Computing technology is always getting better. The dacs on the market now are better then the comparatively priced dacs from ten years ago just as CDP's today are much better then the comparatively priced CDPs from 20 years ago. Buying a used/vintage TOTL CDP makes a lot of sense because it's easier to afford then a new TOTL CDP. But buying a used/vintage CDP on the basis that it's better then new CDPs is like buying a 10 year old Gateway PC on some basis that it's somehow better then new computers.
 
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I was going to suggest the Maverick Audio Tube Magic D1@$199. It's above your budget. It does function as a full fledged headphone amp and preamp.

I'm sure someone will have other suggestions.
 
Go for a vintage disc spinner. You can find some pretty good stuff on ebay with a $50 budget that will blow modern DACs up to about $300 out of the water. Mid to late 80s stuff like my Toshiba XR-35A. It was a mid range CD player that sold under a few different names. It's got the typical 80s CD sound. A little cold, thin, and bright but the dynamics, speed, and soundstage, and bass are out of this world. It won't fit into every system. If you want something smoother and more mellowed out you may want to look for a Sony. Don't bother with on-board sound if you've got a desktop. Louder than the worst scratched records out there but it's hardly targeted at the audiophile market.

If you can't find what you're looking for I might be willing to let my Toshiba go. I haven't really decided yet so shoot me a message if you're interested. A lot of my music is suffering in result of the 'loudness war' and as such is unlistenable on most systems.
 
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I was in the same situation not too long ago. Be warned, vintage CD players are generally a waste of time. There's just so much that can go wrong, what with lasers and transports wearing out, nevermind that D/A converters get better and cheaper year over year.

I'd suggest a new-ish DAC; I bought mine used (Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-09) for just a bit more than your current budget--frankly the best single audio purchase I've ever made.
 
Warning -- Here comes a dumb one:

If I follow lots of advice I've seen and insert a better DAC between my laptop and amplifier (or between CD player and amp, for that matter), how does the source (laptop or CD player) "know" not to do the DA conversion and leave it to the fancy DAC that I've inserted down the line?

Otherwise, isn't the original device which I'm unhappy with the conversion of still doing its thing and feeding a signal already "degraded."?

In other words, it seems to me like the digital to analog conversion would have already taken place when the second DAC sees the signal (??)

Although, I'm sure I'm missing something here...as usual...
 
oblomov said:
Warning -- Here comes a dumb one:

If I follow lots of advice I've seen and insert a better DAC between my laptop and amplifier (or between CD player and amp, for that matter), how does the source (laptop or CD player) "know" not to do the DA conversion and leave it to the fancy DAC that I've inserted down the line?

Otherwise, isn't the original device which I'm unhappy with the conversion of still doing its thing and feeding a signal already "degraded."?

In other words, it seems to me like the digital to analog conversion would have already taken place when the second DAC sees the signal (??)

Although, I'm sure I'm missing something here...as usual...
Click to expand...

I can use my gear as an example if you don't mind.

My computer plugs into my dac via USB. When installing the dac's drivers it tells the computer to bypass the processing and just send the 1s and 0s via USB to the dac.

My Playstation 2 has the regular proprietary A/V outputs and an optical toslink output. They only thing being sent out of the toslink output is the 1's and 0's. They never get to the PS2's internal dacs if you plug a toslink optical cable in. It just all goes right out to my dac.
 
Ah, that makes perfect sense. Thanks.

What if I have a, say, early 1990s CD player and am unhappy with the antiquated conversion and want to upgrade to a new stand-alone DAC? CD player fed directly into amp. In what way can I "tell" the CD player to simply feed the unadulterated digital signal to my new DAC?

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm an analog old fart in a digital world!
 
oblomov said:
Ah, that makes perfect sense. Thanks.

What if I have a, say, early 1990s CD player and am unhappy with the antiquated conversion and want to upgrade to a new stand-alone DAC? CD player fed directly into amp. In what way can I "tell" the CD player to simply feed the unadulterated digital signal to my new DAC?

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm an analog old fart in a digital world!
Click to expand...

It's all a matter of what you have plugged in. Digital signals go through either USB, Optical, or Coax. If you plug in your analog cables to the CD player it will do the conversion, if the digital the DAC will. It's easier than it first appears. :music:

Of course, if your CD player only has analog outs you won't be able to do that. What you'd need in that case is a CD transport or a computer setup. I'd go the computer route myself with the Jplay software and a good USB DAC. Doing that you're trading off the need to decode the disk on the fly, for jitter from the computer. Which of the two sounds better will depend on your DAC.
 
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RedFuneral said:
It's all a matter of what you have plugged in. Analog signals go over RCA cables, digital over either USB, Optical, or Coax. You can rest assured there isn't any conversion going on before it hits the DAC. :music:
Click to expand...

But if the CDP doesn't have a coax or optical output then you're stuck with what you've got. No way to plug in a standalone dac.
 
I might just spend the money and get the HRT Music Streamer 2 for $150. My main question is how much of a sound difference will I see from my crappy dvd player that I use now for cd's? I mean the sound quality currently isn't that bad.

Also how do I use a dac for a computer? Currently I just have some bose speakers, but I heard people say the run their dac to an amp or something. Can I just hook it straight to the computer and see an improvement?
 
Several DACs have USB, such as the Maverick and the Grant Fidelity models mentioned earlier. If you have a modern Apple computer, it probably has Toslink (optical).

Generally internal DACs in Macs/PCs are (as a famous recording engineer once said) the "ass-end of the computer." Unless you have a high-end dedicated sound card, just about anything is an improvement over your PC's internal DAC.
 
Jon. said:
Several DACs have USB, such as the Maverick and the Grant Fidelity models mentioned earlier. If you have a modern Apple computer, it probably has Toslink (optical).

Generally internal DACs in Macs/PCs are (as a famous recording engineer once said) the "ass-end of the computer." Unless you have a high-end dedicated sound card, just about anything is an improvement over your PC's internal DAC.
Click to expand...

I just have a PC, so would I just hook the DAC up and it works, I really have no clue how they work really.

Would it improve the sound quality of my cd's with my dvd player?
 
delfam said:
...HRT Music Streamer 2...
Click to expand...

Two caveats with this one:
1. It's USB only, that is to say it won't work with your DVD player or any dedicated CD transport you may buy.
2. It's USB *powered*. Anything that runs on such little power can't possibly have a decent linestage.​
 
Jon. said:
Two caveats with this one:
1. It's USB only, that is to say it won't work with your DVD player or any dedicated CD transport you may buy.
2. It's USB *powered*. Anything that runs on such little power can't possibly have a decent linestage.​
Click to expand...

what would u recommend then around that price range? I'd like something for my PC and the dvd player, so are there ones with usb and coaxial?
 
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