High mass plinth for dual idlers? Don't see much about this.

[Normo]

Is there something different about the dual idlers that make a high mass plinth unnecessary? There have been extensive posts here, at vinyl engine, lenco heaven showing beautiful examples of plinths that enhance the sound by acting like a sink for vibration and rumble. Would a table like the 1019 benefit? The 12 series? Thanks. Norm

 

[jcamero]

Platter weight.

 

[Kim G]

I think the spindle bearing is the weak link in the duals. A heavy plinth couldn't hurt, but I don't think it will take it to the level of other idlers in heavy plinths. The 1229 was my first idler and I had considered modding it but that was when the Lenco thread on audiogon came out and I picked up my first Lenco. I ended up giving the Dual to my brother-in-law.

 

[beatcomber]

I've wondered about this too. My 1019 is extremely quiet within its OEM plinth.

 

[MCM_Fan]

Is there something different about the dual idlers that make a high mass plinth unnecessary? There have been extensive posts here, at vinyl engine, lenco heaven showing beautiful examples of plinths that enhance the sound by acting like a sink for vibration and rumble. Would a table like the 1019 benefit? The 12 series? Thanks. Norm

I can't speak for the Lencos, but I currently own 4 idler drive tables: 2 Elac Miracords (a 40 and a 45), a Dual 1228 and a Rek O Kut B-12H. Based on the construction of each, it's very easy to tell they were originally intended for different applications.

The Rek O Kut was designed for broadcast applications and is built like a tank - especially the enormous and powerful Ashland motor. The ability to stand up to abuse and constant playing time, in many cases 24/7, was a requirement of the target market.

The Duals and Miracords were aimed at the less demanding home market. Not less demanding in terms of sound quality, less demanding in terms of the amount of use and abuse they would be subjected to on a daily basis.

By comparison the Dual and Elac motors look like toys next to the enormous, powerful Ashland motor of the Rek O Kut. The Duals and Elacs came with suspended chassis. The Rek O Kut was intended to be rigidly bolted to a broadcast console.

So, I suspect the reason you see massive plinths for Rek O Kut tables is to dampen the vibration of the much larger, more powerful motors. This is where the smaller motors of the Duals and Elacs have an advantage. They require far less to dampen any vibrations from their drive motors.

I don't want to generalize too much, since I don't have a Lenco, or other broadcast table to compare to my Dual and my Elacs, but in my particular case, it's not hard to see why the Rek O Kut would benefit much more from a massive plinth than my home market Dual and Elac models.

 

[NoTransistors]

The better Dual [metal chassis] sit on three or four springs with rubber mounts. This makes base construction, unless cheap, hollow plastic, of no consequence. But certainly chassis weight does dramatically affect the turntable's resistance to foot-falls. Both the 1019 and 1218 sit on three springs, But, because the former weighs so much more than the later, it better resists outside vibrations. I kind of like the 1218, but it bounces around way to easily.

 

[JFRACE]

As stated above the spring suspensions on duals make for not needing massive plinths, unless attaching direct with springs taken off. There were videos of 1019s on coke cans and not affecting playback. My 1 1019 is in a massive plinth but it's more visual than anything. I out on adjustable furniture feet to make sure it's perfectly level.

 

[Poinzy]

The only thing a heavy plinth would do on my Dual 1229 is make the turntable even heavier than it is. The things that make the "sound" (or, rather, the lack of it) of the 1229 are the decoupled tonearm counterweight and the heavy platter, not the plinth.

 

[tubeactive]

I would not discourage anyone from trying a heavy plinth/base for any turntable. They can look fantastic and often help the sound.

When considering a table to "upgrade" we probably should ask ourselves if we like the sound as it sits, before mods. Many tables have "limitations" like their included tonearms, for example. Most of the non-Japanese auto tables have plastic or plasticized headshells/cartridge carriers. IMHO, while plastic itself can have anti-resonance properties, plastic can also restrict "definition" of certain frequencies. If I use the same cartridge on my lovely but stock 1229 or 1019 and also on my reference rigs, there would be no doubt in my mind or yours, that sound quality, especially overall resolution/definition and bass solidity gets better when we listen to my reference table/arm.

Please do not take that the wrong way. I cherish my 1019, but it is clearly not my best sounding arm/table. By itself, any system sounds good, even great, especially when playing favorite music. When you can quickly switch components, your psycho-acoustic abilities can quickly decide which sounded better. If you waited more than a few minutes for replay, your brain-ear can easily get "confused" but, again, you can still enjoy the music. Everyone's ears differ, certainly, plus many of us have somewhat of a trained ear. However, we can all enjoy the sound from any given system we have available...