Home Theatre: The Death of Audio

[blackfly]

I am going to tell a story. It is very relevant, and especially to those on this board. Take heed, as I think it tells all we need to know.

I was the manager for a major furniture delivery company delivering IKEA furniture (if you call it that, but not here, not now) in the Lower Mainland of BC. It is a relatively affluent area, and does have its poorer areas. IKEA, you might be surprised, is bought by EVERYBODY. I delivered IKEA for 5 years, 5 to 6 days a week for 12 to 14 hours a day. I saw about 20 houses a day on average. From every socioeconomic variety. In almost equal proportion. Hard to believe but true.

In all that time, I can count, on ONE hand, the number of audio systems that I would call audio decent: IE: the speakers and room are arranged for the best sound, gear is above average, the person cares about sound. Every other time, it was a small system, set off to the corner, speakers behind couches, plants etc.....

I can only remember 3 systems that were audiophile quality, and they did not have McIntosh amps, B+W speakers etc.... but the person knew sound. And this is after visiting thousands of houses. And believe me, I got to see most of the house when delivering furniture, and if not I made it my business to do so.

As another interesting footnote, I am an aquarist, and love aquariums. I NEVER saw a good aquarium above 50 gal in all that time either.

I did see home theatres. A few. But the people with them came at this from the theatre/TV end. IE: the interest was to make movies better, not that they cared about sound. And this is where I make my opinion.

Home theatre is killing audio, or stereo, if you will. Most people (thus the market share) is interested in screens and the systems to make the sound better. The point is: THE INTEREST IN SOUND WAS NOT THERE ORIGINALLY. I had a home theatre at a time when most did not know what it was (I still have my laserdisc player) and got out of it. I found I loved stereo sound better, and that the sound specific options at the time were limited (DVD Audio and SACD). Both were based around the theatre setup due to simplicity, not due to the betterment of sound.

I found theatre sound to be boring after a while. I am not in the mood, everytime, to watch a movie that is IN YOUR FACE. That is home theatre. Perhaps this is what makes going to the movie theatres so special. But in the home, I found it to get old. I wonder the frequency home theatres are used: every night? every week?. I begin to wonder about the justification of the outlay.

Sound, strictly sound, is not like a theatre. Theatre is active. You need to sit, pay attention and devote your undevided attention to the movie. Sound/music is passive. It can be on and you do a many other things. Critical listening is active, but theatre is only active, music is both.

I got out of sound for about 10 years and got back into it. Guess what? DVD based audio is still nowhere. Stereo is still as good as it was. Theatres are more popular, but they are not making music/stereo any more popular. I think more crossover from stereo rather than vice versa.

I think audio only systems are a dying breed. I love them myself, but saw too few of them in my travels and feel the market is not geared (pun intended) toward them. It might not be so for the high end, but in the mass market arena, theatre is number one. I wonder how many theatre buyers are actually aware of how good a stereo system can be, or if they ever were into sound in a meaningful way.

I point this out as at the time Julian Hirsch, equipment reviewer for Sound and Vision, retired he lamented on this very fact and how stereo was being taken over by theatre. The complexity of the theatre receiver compared to the separates approach strictly for sound was overwhelming. To say nothing that not always was the sound better. In fact, Stereo Review, which became Sound and Vision, should actually be renamed Vision and Sound. I picked up a copy recently and found most of the content completely irrelevant to me. I think the magazine covers as much bases as possible to garner sales, but it does nothing for me like the issues did as Stereo Review. In fact, I miss my old issues that I had to get rid of when I moved. Had I know I would not of thrown them out.

Call me old school or old fashion (I am not old) but I think the day the theatre kills the strictly sound only system is near, perhaps soon. And I hope I am wrong, but the equipment makers make what the market dictates, and from what I see, it is obvious the silver screen is winning.

Makes me appreciate my sound system even more, knowing it is getting rarer and rarer to find. Time to go for now. My wife wants to watch a movie.

 

[OvenMaster]

I hear ya. I've mentioned in other threads that in 1997 and 1998 I helped my parents buy a house before housing prices went through the roof. We must have looked at maybe 20 to 30 homes, mostly pretty average, with a few "handyman specials" and really nice ($$$) places thrown in to have a good look-see at what was out there.

Out of all of them, only one had a stereo, a Toshiba rack system with a cassette deck held shut with duct tape. In all the others, the only electronics devoted to music were clock-radios in the master bedrooms. Not one house had a HT system or a TV with a screen larger than 27".

I'd love to know who's buying all the HT gear that keeps BB and CC in business... and there's only one stereo-only store in my metro area of a half-million people.

Tom

 

[x_25]

My plan for my bedroom (I still live with my parents) is to make it work as both an audio and a video room. My stereo is set up to work with music and with movies that I watch on my projector. I am also working on setting up a surround sound system using vintage receivers and speakers. My computer (which will be the DVD player) can output 7.1 surround sound through stereo 1/8" mini jacks on the back. I can have the receivers set up with one for the front, one for the center, one for the rear and another to take car of the subwoofer and center channel. Still with the set up with music I will probably only use the one set up for the front channel. Unless I fell like blasting my ear drums out by daisy chaining the receivers together.

 

[thisOne]

Well, there is no TV anywhere near wher I'm sitting and listening to all audio system, and there is a s#!tload of audio gear (or at least more than necessary) so I don't really care about those guys with 60" plasmas.

Besides, there might have been more people with great gear 30 years ago, but I'd venture to say that the same proportion cared about the quality of their listenign experience as they do now.

We never know, 30 years from now it may all be about vintage plasma and blue ray disks

 

[70salesguy]

I have some very cherished audio components that I wanted to buy for a long time. I had searched classified ads, community papers, all kind of places without success. Then eBay came along and after a while I found the pieces that I wanted.

They were owned by a lady who had worked for the company that made the equipment I desired. She had purchased them new at "employee discount" and had all original papers. The equipment was in mint condition.

Here's the kicker : Want to know why she was selling? Her and her husband were going to a Home Theatre setup and no longer needed them! :sigh:

Now understand that I paid a fair (if not a little high) price for them (worth every penny to me) and this travesty resulted in a good outcome for me!

It is my guess that much of the vintage gear we see on eBay and CL is on the market for the same reason! :tears:

 

[whoaru99]

HT is great. Music sounds great through my HT system as well.

The death of audio? Hardly, IMO...

If anything, it's the re-invigoration; just in a different format.

 

[willyrover]

I'm not quite sure how having a dedicated "home theatre" room is any different from having a dedicated "2 channel listening room". Why would someone (probably a MAJORITY of the population) who does not enjoy sitting and listening to music bother with optimum speaker placement or higher end equipment? If 100" projection images and surround sound that is nothing but loud and in your face is what thrills you, then so be it.

There will always be a vast majority of consumers who embrace what the big box stores say they should have, a small minority who want nothing but the upscale latest and greatest, and a small minority who have a fascination with the obsolete, antiquated, or archaic.

 

[treserious]

interestingly enough, i fall into all 3 categories. sort of, although i lean more towards the high end and vintage stereo.

my GF of 8 years is more into the TV, she just bought "us" (by which i mean "herself") a 37" LCD. i have a half decent Yamaha 5.1 system using some sets of speakers i don't have room for in my listening room.


I don't fully agree with the idea that HT is killing the stereo, not in such uncompromising terms.
the industry constantly evolves, and i think that per capita you still have the same amount of folks who buy, own and listen to a good stereo system. be it new, high end, or vintage.

i do however think that the "great unwashed" are moving away from the hifi system of the 70's and 80's towards HT.

especially generation X-ers and their MTV offspring. video as a format is surpassing audio in media sales by leaps and bounds. now the myspace generation is all about the youtube and emo poetry, but again completely engrossed by video as a format as opposed to the influence audio had on the older generations.


as far as hardware sales, manufacturing and availability ( new or used )are concerned we shouldn't see too much of a change, except we will have to look more to the "boutique" type of shops for our purchases, as HT is killing the hifi market in big box stores.

what does really concern me is the availability of CDs and LPs. the whole myspace generation is used to MP3 format, they dont know any better, and it all sounds like loose change rattling round a coffee can.
with the struggles that the music industry is facing now with piracy, dwindling CD sales and such, i see a major paradigm shift coming to the industry in short order. the way they do buisness, if they manage to continue doing so at all will change so drastically that us audio guys will be paying high premiums in order to not endure the coffee can MP3 sound quality which is so prevalent now.

if you ask me, HT did not kill the stereo. it put it to its knees in the common market.
truly MP3 will deliver the killing blow and proceed to write bad poetry about the whole ordeal on its blog.

hopefully the niche will remain, and not bankrupt us all.

 

[thedelihaus]

Do you fellas see the iPod and MP3 as a help, or hurt to the hi-fi world?

Record (vinyl) sales are up, though this could be a novelty thing. CD sales surely are down.

But my guess is that, as internet speeds quicken and hard drive storage drops further in price, the MP3 formatted downloads will give way to full-sized files.

Still, for what it does to music purchasing- buying singles over albums- is a mixed bag.

but back on topic-

As for Home Theater- I own a humble HT setup, dwarved by my stereo collection- but this not the norm, we probably will agree.

The HT setup, as fun as it is, allows for fun viewing of certain TV series, action movies, some animation releases, but does little for older films, most comedies, the romance genre, and lots of indies.

The move to HT had/has potential for folk to get back into audio gear- many HT receivers have a "stereo" option, or a "B" channel that's strictly stereo, and some modern HT setups do well with stereo reproduction.

Sadly the "phono" section has been dropped from many a HT receiver or pre-amp.

And worse, the heavy lean towards speakers that take up minimal space- visual inconspicuousness over quality sound being the new importance.

Thus, those "sound bars" for HT, which mount below your widescreen in a long, slender bar, or the tiny white cube and micro speakers tucked away in corners.



This post is a very interesting read. Many good points brought up here.

I can't say I'm convinced that the HT movement was thee death knell in stereo, as I feel the public's desire for in-home entertainment via television played more of a roll, but lots of good food for thought.

 

[RichPA]

Really high-quality audio (not necessarily high-priced) is and always has been a hobby, and as a hobby I think it is alive and well. It's true that it became more "mainstream" for a while in the 70's and into the 80's, but that was the exception historically, I think. Look at the number of small manufacturers of high-quality gear that around. There's also an amazing amount of good music available. It is harder to find both without the internet, and I miss good record and stereo stores, but I have no trouble finding gear and good recordings of good music, and that's what I care about.

Oh, yeah, and I do have a home theater setup too.

 

[hotwheelsfan]

Interesting reading indeed,

I do agree that, it's too bad that most folks are not as passionate about the quality in the Audio Experience. Lack of knowledge kills that, as well many other factors which are pushed our way.

I myself enjoy the Audio part of HT systems way more than the Visual. I think speaker placement is very important for a good sounding system. So I would say that - if you don't have the abilty to produce the correct sound, it would lead towards a system that gets less attention to the Audio, and more towards the Visual. I also think that many who do get HT systems at the basic run of the mill electronic superstores, may have decent systems, but not set up correctly.

It took me several years and 3 different AV Receivers before I really got into the quality of HT systems. In the end I realized that I needed to set up my system with correct speaker placement to the seating. This pretty much turned my useable living room into a listening room with my seating in the center and less room for other things.

Once I had my HT system working well, I started to realize that my music preferences did not work as I would have liked.... Such as plopping in a CD in and listining to a few sides of music.

I am glad now to own several tube amps along with my vintage gear. I hope now to do what I have done to my HT system, to my Audio system so I can get back to enjoying my albums.

I also have much research to do as far as MP3's and all, but I like them as far as sheer ease of use and portability. So far I am the happiest with them - 500 to 600+ Kbs through my computer.

Bob

 

[chillwolf]

There is no HT in my house. I have a stereo system in the the living room and one in my man cave and no TV in either room. We have 3 TVs and they are all in the bedrooms. I do not watch TV very much, mostly just to watch certain sporting events and some movies that I like. IMO most of the crap on TV is just not worth watching! I'd rather listen to good music or read a good book!

 

[Zeromancer]

HT is great. Music sounds great through my HT system as well.

The death of audio? Hardly, IMO...

If anything, it's the re-invigoration; just in a different format.

I agree
But, I do feel that the average consumer is being uninformed about audio lately. Going to best buy for expert audio advice is not the best thing to do lol.
I listen to alot of music on my HT system - in stereo.
I also listen to DVD-A or DTS-CD music in 5.1 surround sound.
I just think consumers need to be educated better about what products are out there.
You can still have a HT setup and still have great equipment to listen to music in stereo if you want. But your average joe isn't willing to fork out $3k on an amp and $5k on speakers, so he goes the route of buying a HTIB.

 

[Zeromancer]

There is no HT in my house. I have a stereo system in the the living room and one in my man cave and no TV in either room. We have 3 TVs and they are all in the bedrooms. I do not watch TV very much, mostly just to watch certain sporting events and some movies that I like. IMO most of the crap on TV is just not worth watching! I'd rather listen to good music or read a good book!

I don't watch much TV shows. I primarily watch dvds, hd-dvd's, and listen to music. I couldn't live without having a HT setup.
Now for pure stereo I listen to my 2channel setup in my living room.

 

[deeder7001]

I play with the 4 channel mode on my sound card for games sometimes. It sounds kinda cool but I get bored with it easily. I use my Technics integrated for the rear amp. Most of my friends have some sort of HTIB set or they just use their tvs for music.

 

[Wolverine]

Well I think my story regarding sound is somewhat typical of the evolution that has been mentioned.

My first stand alone system back in the late 70's was a Technics 25wpc reciever, a inexpensive Technics TT, a TEAC tape deck and a pair of Pioneer Project 80's. That system was on almost 24-7 during college and even for a few years afterwards. Sound was decent for the time but by no means high end but the majority of people back then did not have much in terms of stand alone systems. Racks came onto the scene and alot of people considered them high end, Bose was really the only major maker heavily into marketing and alot of people in my circles then could not afford Bose and coupled with the marketing came to think of Bose as THE speaker maker.

That is not say there were not people out there pursuing good sound. My little brother had some Cerwin-Vegas and other equipment and was always trying to convince me to upgrade but I would not listen. I think for the majority of people out there "good was good enough". CD's came along and were a hit more because of the "push and play" aspect rather than SQ. Systems could get even smaller and as some of us got married and had kids you could not have music playing all the time or turntables playing where the "wandering ones" might damage something. Music just became less important and therfor so did the equipment dedicated to playing music. Heck we had MTV-we could "watch" music!! When I remember visting family and friends (even friends from college who used to crank alot of tunes in the day) their music set-ups were just no where to be seen.

Enter big screen TV's......Mid 90's or so and all of a sudden we have 36 inch TV's and now everyone has to have sound to match the screen. HT is born and most peoples interest in audio is restricted to how it does in an HT set-up. Subwoofers come into the picture (be honest had most of you even been aware of a subwoofer until 5.1 hit the scene???) and alot of speaker makers said I don't need to build a good speaker- I need to build a good speaker "system" for HT. DVD players replaced CD players further pushing music back as video/HT continued to be the focus. Along the way though a funny thing happened to some of us. We started to play our music on our HT systems, our kids were older and music became important again.

Now the majority of people today are still locked into audio as it relates to HT and I think that will continue for some years to come as HD is still in its early stages and the price continues to come down on Plasma, LCD, DLP etc video. But as that happens I think you will slowly see people, like I did, return to music and I think they will see that HT audio does not neccessarily work as well with music and they will look for the market to meet their needs.


I have kind of got into vintage stuff lately and a lot of people here complain about BPC but there are some people out there still producing good quality equipment. Right now a lot of it is just being overshadowed by HT. Audio will probably never overtake video in people's preference for a variety of reasons but we all might be surprised in a few years that the audio gear being produced will be far superior to much of the older equipment some people equate with the "golden age" of audio back in the 70's.

Long-winded I know but just my take........

 

[kretinus]

Why do people get so worked up about what other people spend their money on just because it isn't what we would spend our own on?

 

[RayW]

Really high-quality audio (not necessarily high-priced) is and always has been a hobby, and as a hobby I think it is alive and well. It's true that it became more "mainstream" for a while in the 70's and into the 80's, but that was the exception historically, I think. Look at the number of small manufacturers of high-quality gear that around. There's also an amazing amount of good music available. It is harder to find both without the internet, and I miss good record and stereo stores, but I have no trouble finding gear and good recordings of good music, and that's what I care about.

Oh, yeah, and I do have a home theater setup too.

I'm with Rich on this one. I submit that the stuff most AKers listen to has always been a niche market with the possible exception of the silver face heyday. I would imagine people have been decrying the death of HiFi (or stereo) every time something new comes along to compete, be it TV, VCRs, cable, satellite TV, and now home theater. Things may wax and wane and technologies will evolve but I believe the niche will always be there.

Deli, I see the mp3/ipod as an evolutionary step. It may seem like a step backwards right now in terms of sound quality but I see it catching up quickly. JMO, of course.

Ray

 

[treserious]

Do you fellas see the iPod and MP3 as a help, or hurt to the hi-fi world?

Record (vinyl) sales are up, though this could be a novelty thing. CD sales surely are down.

But my guess is that, as internet speeds quicken and hard drive storage drops further in price, the MP3 formatted downloads will give way to full-sized files.

Still, for what it does to music purchasing- buying singles over albums- is a mixed bag.

that vinyl sales are up is an interesting fact. new vinyl, as in new music on vinyl is driven by the mtv generation mostly. they listen to their coffee can on the go, and have vinyl at home.

most of the new music on vinyl falls into three categories. alternative, rap, and techno.
but for home consumption its mostly alternative.

i think as cheaper larger storage becomes available as it is starting to do now, there may be a shift to higher quality formats in exchange for the MP3, but at this time i cant foresee that due to the prevalence of mp3 support in the music industry, and the hardware industry.

currently its a quantity over quality market.

 

[BrocLuno]

Two channel is still with us - IPods are two channel, portable CD players are two channel, walkmen, etc... I think audio as we see it here - a modestly high art form - has always been a niche market.

We tout Technics 1200 TT's as the big name, they've sold a few million units. My guess is that RCA or Sony sell that many TVs a year - not total sales. Heck Sharp (a name that never did much in audio) probably sells that many Plasma TVs a year. The speaker makers know where their income comes from - HT.

Bottom line is we were always a minority and we'll stay that way. There are some very high end makers of two channel, some left field makers like tube CDP (nothing wrong there, it's just a niche within a niche), etc. H/K is still making two channel. The market is telling us what percentage of product we are "worth" as a consumption force.

I drive two of my "stereo" systems with DVD players for CD source because they sound good enough. One plays movies too, the other has never seen a DVD yet - it's a music source only - no TV within 30 ft or even the same room. It's all mix and match.

I like old stuff. I like Model A cars (had a couple back in the day), old boats, old guns, old bikes (pedal and motor). I'm not to keen on carbon fiber (yet) and modern high tech gizmos. If the owners manual and instructions weigh more than the object, I have a hard time.

It just seems to take me a long time to assimilate technology. Does that mean new stuff is automatically bad - no? Does that mean that new stuff can replace old stuff - maybe? But I'll take an old cast iron frame band saw over a new modern sheet metal welded frame any day. Could I afford the cast iron one new - heck no. But I don't have to. They are out there in the used market where I shop mostly - same for stereo