Hooking up a pre to an integrated without pre-ins

[BoPilot]

EDIT: Sorry title should have been Hooking up a pre to an integrated without main-in

Hi everyone I have a little problem I was hoping I could get some advice on how best to solve. I recently acquired a Luxman M120 poweramp and a Sony TA-2000 preamp for a steal of a price and wish to integrate it into my main system with my Audio-GD DAC and Tandberg 3012. Without splitting RCA outputs on the DAC or getting some kind of switchbox which could degrade sound quality or otherwise be fairly expensive, my only option seems to be to run my DAC to the Sony preamp then from the Sony out to the Tandberg and the Luxman. The Sony preamp has 2xPre-outs so normally this wouldn't be an issue but the Tandberg doesn't have a main-in.

I was reading the manual for the Sony TA-2000 and was wondering if it would be possible to use the tape recording inputs and outputs on the TA-2000 to bypass the preamp and connect the Tandberg to the Sony?

This is what is written in the manual, "Tape Inputs: These inputs accept line outputs or monitor outputs of a tape recorder or a tape deck. These inputs have a maximum sensitivity of 120 millivolts and an input impedance of more than 100K ohms." For Recording Outputs it says, " These outputs supply signals to a tape recorder. The input impedance of the tape recorder connected to these outputs should be greater than 10K ohms. Controls on the front panel - TONE, VOLUME, and BALANCE controls - have no effect on the recording results."

To me this sounds like some kind of signal pass-through that could perform the function I am looking for here. Will this be a safe way to connect these units and do you think it could have a negative effect on the sound quality. Thanks for any input!

 

[the skipper]

The tape outputs are unaffected by the volume, tone, balance, etc controls but the tape inputs, or the aux inputs, will not bypass the receiver's internal preamp. You'll be going through the two preamp stages.

As for any damage, your fears are unfounded. You'l be fine.

 

[CT Jim]

Somewhere I lost track of which is doing what, but when you use the tape in/out you cannot control volume/bass/treble/balance on that unit. The signal is a fixed level and only varies with the music level as recorded.

What he said!!

 

[StimpyWan]

Yea, I hope you're wanting (asking how) to run the Sony TA-2000 as the preamp(?) If so, use one set of it's pre out's into the Tandberg 3012's DD/Aux inputs. Use the 2nd set of Sony pre outs to the Luxman. Set the 3012's volume knob at 50% and Enjoy.

Hope this helps, and Welcome to AK...!

 

[StimpyWan]

Oh, I like the look of the new Sony and Luxman gear. Very nice. Once you hear them, you might not feel the need to continue using the Tandberg. But, trying both will allow an easy A/B comparison.

 

[whoaru99]

Hi everyone I have a little problem I was hoping I could get some advice on how best to solve. I recently acquired a Luxman M120 poweramp and a Sony TA-2000 preamp for a steal of a price and wish to integrate it into my main system with my Audio-GD DAC and Tandberg 3012.

You be using the Luxman amp and the Tandberg integrated each with its own set of speakers, or?

 

[Nightwisher]

I would think it would be best [WORST] to plug the luxman into the power socket of the preamp (then use pre to turn everything on and off), but that may not give you optimal sound at higher volumes(not sure of this, just what I think as the outlet sockets have limits on power output).

Never connect a power amp to a preamp's outlets unless the preamp is designed for that. Even then, you have to be very careful with matching the power consumption ratings. The majority of preamps aren't designed to handle the wattage of a power amp in their outlets, which is why there are warning labels of 100 or 200 Watts max on the majority of them. Looking at both the specific models here, that would be a horrible idea.

 

[BoPilot]

The tape outputs are unaffected by the volume, tone, balance, etc controls but the tape inputs, or the aux inputs, will not bypass the receiver's internal preamp. You'll be going through the two preamp stages.

As for any damage, your fears are unfounded. You'l be fine.

Thanks Skipper! I was hoping to bypass the preamp stage but sounds like that's not gonna happen. Thanks for the info I was unaware as to whether it would still be going through the preamp, sounds like it still is.

Yea, I hope you're wanting (asking how) to run the Sony TA-2000 as the preamp(?) If so, use one set of it's pre out's into the Tandberg 3012's DD/Aux inputs. Use the 2nd set of Sony pre outs to the Luxman. Set the 3012's volume knob at 50% and Enjoy.

Hope this helps, and Welcome to AK...!

That is the way I originally thought to hook up the Tandberg but was fearing the SQ affect of running the signal through 2 preamps. Sounds like I can't avoid doing that even if I used the Tape Recording in/outs so I will probably just go ahead and go this route unless you think using the TAPE in/outs may provide better sound considering certain tone controls are bypassed? Or will this likely provide the same results as running the pre-out to the AUX input and using the tone bypass button and 50% volume on the Tand?

Oh, I like the look of the new Sony and Luxman gear. Very nice. Once you hear them, you might not feel the need to continue using the Tandberg. But, trying both will allow an easy A/B comparison.

They are beautiful pieces and after a few days of listening i'm starting to feel that you might be correct, the Sony+Lux may have a leg up on the Tandberg!

You be using the Luxman amp and the Tandberg integrated each with its own set of speakers, or?

Yes that is correct I would like to have both amps connected to the DAC each with its own set of speakers.

Never connect a power amp to a preamp's outlets unless the preamp is designed for that. Even then, you have to be very careful with matching the power consumption ratings. The majority of preamps aren't designed to handle the wattage of a power amp in their outlets, which is why there are warning labels of 100 or 200 Watts max on the majority of them. Looking at both the specific models here, that would be a horrible idea.

Good information thanks for your input!

Be careful. I had (and still do, just not working, wont come out of protection) an m120a. From 97-earlier this year it worked great (after about 10 years, I was forced to use remote speaker outputs as relays for main were on their way out due to oxidation/wear, no big deal, specs the same, sound the same, power the same, everything the same). Well I picked up a rotel rx-1402 receiver and wanted to try using it as a pre for the lux (receiver had pre out/main in jumpers). I did that and everything was fine until one day instead of powering off the amp before the receiver, i did the opposite. Now I have a luxman that wont come out of protection. Not sure if this was supposed to happen or not, but it did. Just be careful on how you rig it and the order you turn things off. I would think it would be best to plug the luxman into the power socket of the preamp (then use pre to turn everything on and off), but that may not give you optimal sound at higher volumes(not sure of this, just what I think as the outlet sockets have limits on power output). If not turn off the lux before the pre or you *may* have problems ("may" in asterisks bc like I said, I dont know if what happened was supposed to happen (maybe somethig about the rotel was faulty, dont know), but I do know I killed my m120a by not turning it off first. So yeah thanks for reminding me I killed my beloved m120a by farting around with it for shiggles.

Thaks for the info! I always turn on source then pre then power and reverse order for shutdown out of paranoia, looks like it isn't totally unjustified. Thanks for sharing the story, sorry about the loss tho .

Wow AK thanks again, you all rock! Such a wealth of information and timely responses! Have a great day all!

 

[whoaru99]

50% volume is just a starting point, IMO.

You'd use that and the level controls on the Luxman to get the sound levels where you want them, relative to the preamp volume.

Personally, I'd set the Luxman level controls all the way down and the Tandberg volume all the way down. Then, put on your source and set the preamp volume to about 2/3. Then, turn up the Luxman levels and the Tandberg volume until they're about as loud as you'd go. From then on just use the preamp volume control as the master volume.

 

[StimpyWan]

That is the way I originally thought to hook up the Tandberg but was fearing the SQ affect of running the signal through 2 preamps. Sounds like I can't avoid doing that even if I used the Tape Recording in/outs so I will probably just go ahead and go this route unless you think using the TAPE in/outs may provide better sound considering certain tone controls are bypassed? Or will this likely provide the same results as running into the AUX input and using the tone bypass button and 50% volume?

As long as the Sony is being used as the preamp, you could run it's RCA outputs into the Tandberg's tape inputs. It would be a bit cleaner, since it does bypass most of the Tandberg's preamp circuitry. I just wasn't 100% sure which piece was going to be used as the main preamp, when I replied earlier today.

They are beautiful pieces and after a few days of listening i'm starting to feel that you might be correct, the Sony+Lux may have a leg up on the Tandberg!

Definitely! That Sony/Luxman stack looks as good as it should sound. A nice Score!