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How "analog" can digital music sound?

Is it live or is it Memorex ??....

Too many variables .. there is no good answer to this question ..
Until a whole bunch of folks try it, we can only speculate ... and you're still subject to the sound/distortions of the playback equipment ..

The real question remains .. How good are we at reproducing live music ??
 
Got an NW A-45 (lossless) Sony Walkman, with an option in "settings" that allows for analog sound, that tends to colour it just a bit.

Not sure how they do this? The change is slight, and more obvious with good HP's rather than with BT speakers.


Q
 
I get the image of a recording studio in the early 80's, the new digital recorder has arrived ( After a shouting match with the Accountants over the cost. ) and is unboxed, bolted into a console and wired up. Some musicians setup to play and a recording is made. Then it is played back and the engineers, musicians and various others ( Because you know everyone at the studio wants to hear the new toy. ) they blink a few times. Then one of them says, "Well THAT was different."

At first digital was just a bolt-in replacement for analog tape, the studio equipment & recording techniques were the same. The result was mediocre many times and spectacular at other times.

Everything in the studio changed when digital came in, it's still changing. Which to be honest it was doing so with analog too.

Mark Gosdin
 
@Aaron Hayman

OK, I did a little digging. This book is apparently one of the key works in the field. It first came out in 1974, so you might look for a first edition.

Modern Recording Techniques (Audio library)
by David Miles Huber | Paperback

I was able to find a fifth edition, published in 1987, on eBay. If you're diligent you can probably find the 1974 version.

And this is a link to a list of similar books. Hopefully that will give you a better handle on the question.

Cheers,

Kim G
Boston, MA

Edit:
Here's a link to a copy of the original Modern Recording Techniques, 1974. Looks like it'll run you about $20.
 
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This topic has been discussed at incredible length here and elsewhere.
IMO so much of it interpretation and perceptions.

But the idea can sound be recorded into a modern day DAW and sound like a
recording of analog yesteryear. YES imo...

As others here have rightfully pointed out. Another HUGE factor of recreating that sound has
to do with Mics used, placement, tacking and more. It was a simpler time and that contributed
to the overall sound and our nostalgic association. FYI I dont say this in any kind of demeaning
way. I love the end product of so many of those recordings. DSP can emulate and mimic allot of
things. But trying to recapture that scaled back sound isnt as simple doctoring in the box ;)
Im sure it can get one much closer but I bet its easier to recreate by simply limiting mics used
and placement. DSP can emulate mic models and many other fancy things.

Then of course, that sound is also the player. As others mentioned. You brought up The Who.
I cant think of one other drummer Ive ever heard that sounds like Keith Moon. He was like the
Muppets Animal but with actual technical abilities. Its also hard to imagine that sound happening
without Entwistle. Then look at Blues players like Big Bill Broonzy or the late Peter Green. That
sound we associate with them has so much to do with their playing and signing. Or Art Tatum.
How does one re-create playing like that? I simply feel so much of the recording sound we attribute
lends itself to the music being played in addition.

For an example of capturing the sound via hardware outside the "box", one could look at a product
based out of my state of Wisconsin. The Crane Song Hedd. Its a professional master AD DA
converter box that also has built in tape, tube and many other tricks built right into the box. I know
its not alone with such features. Just an example of how one can incorporate that sound into the
recording process at yet another stage in the chain.

In a nut shell I feel achieving the vintage "sound" in the recording process can be done digitally.
Its the other factors like recording techniques and the musicians at play that bring a much bigger
element into achieving the perceptions some might be seeking.

Now to reverse the goal of bringing a crazy modern sound with purely say mid 70s on back recording
gear would be a much bigger challenge. I dont say this to demean anything. Just stating I feel that
would be a much greater challenge. Probably an obvious point to most.

This is my non recording engineer take on the matter ;)
 
JMiP said:
Yesterday I Learned that Dire Straits' Brothers In Arms was recorded straight to digital.
Click to expand...

As were the majority of vinyl recordings made since the mid/late 80s.

Makes me think that at least some portion of what folks refer to as "analog sound" is a function of dragging a stylus across vinyl, a unique mechanical and transductive process with unique sonic characteristics.
 
Aaron Hayman said:
Ok, I was just thinking... in terms of recording tech, if it's really possible to produce something that sounds very convincingly like old tape with completely digital gear? I'm not talking about playback at all mind you, a subject that's already been discussed a ton on the site here.

I'm a musician (a drummer) and have been involved in a number of recording projects over the years, but I don't have the gear, much less the knowhow to do audio engineering stuff. I am fascinated by the subject though and ask my friends who have studios lots of questions, so I feel like even though I don't know how to run the gear, I still know something about it. I know that there are lots of plug ins and rack mount effects units that do various things to imitate analog type sounds. These kind of treatments are generally desirable because they can warm up the vibe of a recording in a nice way. Still, it seems that whenever I hear a newer band that is going for a very obviously old school sound, like the White Stripes for example I always seem to find out that they use all-analog gear for recording. I wonder if it's possible and then if it is if there are good examples of recordings that sound very old - like Elvis Sun Sessions, old blues and R&B on Chess records, old reggae (with all of those funky spring reverbs and tape delays) which have been made with purely digital gear?
Click to expand...

I'm sure it can be done. Vinyl playback videos on Youtube to my ears sometimes sound better than CD. No mixing, no compensation, it is straight digital conversion to YT. This should be doable on higher resolution digital formats but sometimes the CD release sounds flat. It's the loudness wars thing at work here.
 
spark1 said:
As were the majority of vinyl recordings made since the mid/late 80s.

Makes me think that at least some portion of what folks refer to as "analog sound" is a function of dragging a stylus across vinyl, a unique mechanical and transductive process with unique sonic characteristics.
Click to expand...
Yeah... that's not it. You guys are really focused on the playback aspect and I'm talking about the way that something is recorded. Something that has the kind of very characteristic analog sounding recording treatment sounds that way even if it's played on a CD. The differences between digital and analog playback can be very subtle, but the kind of thing that I'm talking about is more obvious. Listen to these two clips and tell me if you know of any modern recordings done on digital equipment that have a similar vibe in terms of the recording (but not necessarily the content). I know that digital recording gear has evolved to the point where there are lots of tools that one can use to imitate analog type effects, but I find it interesting that I'm not aware of anything that has a really old, crusty, very stereotypically analog sound that's be done with digital recording gear.

Here are just a few examples of the kind of thing that I'm talking about, that have a very analog quality to me (and I've never heard recordings that I know to be made with digital gear that sound like this):


 
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PPstereo said:
In a nut shell I feel achieving the vintage "sound" in the recording process can be done digitally.
Its the other factors like recording techniques and the musicians at play that bring a much bigger
element into achieving the perceptions some might be seeking.
Click to expand...

Yes! This gets to the heart of what I'm curious about here... Other folks' responses seem to reflect a misunderstanding of the kind of questions that I'm asking.

If it is indeed possible to to get that very vintage, analog vibe on a digital recording I'm wondering what artists have gone that route... and if there's some examples to listen to?
 
GChief said:
Lol... you used newer band and White Stripes together...:bigok:

I would think starting over 2 decades ago is no longer new :dunno:
:beerchug:
Click to expand...
New in the sense that they are very much "digital era," a era when nearly every recording studio is digital. They have a stereotypically vintage sound, not just to music itself but to the vibe of the recordings and use old tape gear to get that effect... not the same kind of digital recording gear that nearly all of their peers use.
 
Aaron Hayman said:
Yes! This gets to the heart of what I'm curious about here... Other folks' responses seem to reflect a misunderstanding of the kind of questions that I'm asking.

If it is indeed possible to to get that very vintage, analog vibe on a digital recording I'm wondering what artists have gone that route... and if there's some examples to listen to?
Click to expand...

It has to be source and recording equipment. This is a 1958 stereo recording. The analog and tube flavor come through clearly to my ears despite YT crappy bit rate.

 
Aaron Hayman said:
Yes! This gets to the heart of what I'm curious about here... Other folks' responses seem to reflect a misunderstanding of the kind of questions that I'm asking.

If it is indeed possible to to get that very vintage, analog vibe on a digital recording I'm wondering what artists have gone that route... and if there's some examples to listen to?
Click to expand...

Honestly I think the folks here are trying to respond to your question.

I get what your saying too.

Just I feel outside of smaller labels or independent recording efforts one simply doesnt hear that kind of sound often anymore.

Id categorize it as being minimalist. Stripped down. And VERY light on the compression and polishing.

I too like that kinda sound myself.

Its probably why I love acoustic recordings of bands and live shows in general. Less chance to muck things up in general.

Just a couple examples that come to my mind would be the early recordings of The White Stripes, Kings of Leon, Wolfmother. These just off the top of my head. Id need to do more deep digging for others.

But yeah, sadly that technique really doesnt get used as much as it should IMO. Especially when it comes to rock and roll.

Personally I wouldnt even use "digital" as the divider. IMO its far more about micing, polishing, multi tracking, DSP. All of which can be applied to a analog recording just as easily as a digital one (well almost as easy).

This is my interpretation of what your going for.
 
Aaron Hayman said:
Yeah... that's not it. You guys are really focused on the playback aspect and I'm talking about the way that something is recorded. Something that has the kind of very characteristic analog sounding recording treatment sounds that way even if it's played on a CD. The differences between digital and analog playback can be very subtle, but the kind of thing that I'm talking about is more obvious. Listen to these two clips and tell me if you know of any modern recordings done on digital equipment that have a similar vibe in terms of the recording (but not necessarily the content). I know that digital recording gear has evolved to the point where there are lots of tools that one can use to imitate analog type effects, but I find it interesting that I'm not aware of anything that has a really old, crusty, very stereotypically analog sound that's be done with digital recording gear.

Here are just a few examples of the kind of thing that I'm talking about, that have a very analog quality to me (and I've never heard recordings that I know to be made with digital gear that sound like this):


Click to expand...
In talking about how it sounds during playback I'm actually talking about the way it is recorded. The reason it's recorded is for playback. The way it's recorded and processed is for the way it will sound during playback. I don't think the digital format is the issue... time machine a digital console back to 1960 and feed it the inputs just as the engineers have the studio set up and it will record that old school sound... just don't engage any of the effects other than what was available at the time, just straight record. You'll have the sound. Just take a digital recorder... a quality hand held... feed the output from that the 'old' console in the time travel event into it instead of their tape machine and you'll have that old school sound captured in digital memory. I know I'm eliminating the tape in this but it's not the medium so much as it is the skill of the engineers with microphone choice and placement in the studio to get it right coming in... not fixing (f##king with) it later. Also... as much as the engineering might have been trained by the hardware so it might be with us, the listeners, the market... a (incestuous perhaps) feed back loop so to speak.

Trying to emulate analogue sound as an effect is somewhat curious when one considers the difficulty in defining analogue sound compared to digital. Just what are they attempting to produce with such an effect... curious indeed... and the one's creating the effect on the design side, could they do it in a purely analogue world...? I don't know... what I do know is I've heard excellent analogue tape recordings sourced from high quality master studio mixed tapes that are the best I've ever heard.
 
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