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How bad is it Dr Lux??

LHorn

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
Incident: Yesterday I was cranking (no more than normal..10 o'clock pos) on my 2 Luxman R-117's...#1 connected to my JBL 250's and pre-out to #2 running as an amp for my 240's. Towards the end of the song a massive pop and both receivers shut down then restarted before I could get to them.

Burnt smell from #1 and the right 250's woofer cone was blown out of the magnet gap and locked solid. No smell from inside the 250..crossovers weren't hot or any obvious meltdowns...all other speakers seem fine. I tried to pull the woofer cone forward and reset it in the gap..no go..so I had to cut the surround to get it back in the gap. It moved fine..no scraping...and DCR measured 6.8Ω like it did when I got it. Battery test was good.

I pulled the cover from #1 receiver...the only obvious problem is Speaker B, Right channel relay (it has 4..2 relays for A..2 for B) cover was melted. That board has no signs of overheating and everything inside the unit looks normal as well. After the incident when it was on...it was playing the 240's through the pre-out to #2 receiver fine although I did not turn it up much. I did not try switching #1's speaker B relay back on to check the left 250. It didnt blow either receivers fuses.

So what do you guys think the prognosis is? Would just the relay going out cause that..or did something happen to cause the relay to fail? Could an electrolytic cap in the xover in the 250 have failed causing a backfire of sort? Would it be wise to have the xover checked out? I was in the process of getting new caps for all the speakers but I havent made it to that point yet.

Treatment will of course be getting the receivers serviced..#1 first because #2 still works fine...but what else should I be concerned about?
 
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Relay going out means the solenoid opens when powered or doesn't close or is allowing signal when it shouldn't. That is not a failure that would shoot a woofer across the room.

Now, I'm learning so some wags. Electrical failure that got through the relay as it tried to open. Maybe the current through it melted it and froze it closed. I would suspect outputs shorted allowing rail voltage to get to the speaker and melting the relay. Time for some serious work on the receiver.
 
@Blue Shadow So you think that an output transistor or something sent high current to the speaker and the relay tried to open to stop it and couldnt? I know the R117 has some sort of safety circuit/device because if you do crank it over its limits it shuts down for 10-15 seconds then comes back on. I looked down between the gap at the heatsinks and boards where I can see the output transistors/FET's or whatever they are...and they all look normal as well. Like I said I see no discoloration on any of the boards and no obvious signs of the solder joints...but I cant see everything without taking it apart..and there's no way I'm doing that. So you dont think the old caps could have caused this? What happens if the 24uF cap for the woofer would short/fail? Yes...it is that time...a little beyond. Thanks for the help.

@two.dogs I'll post a few pics I could get..all I can do with an old Droid Turbo camera. The speaker just looks like a speaker waiting to get a new surround since I alread put it back in the gap...and the surrounds are very tough and pliable which I didnt expect. I didnt take a pic before that but the cone was sticking out beyond the frame and tilted a bit and the surround was stretched tight...the spider and leads are fine. I just got the 250's last summer and was planning to do an overhaul soon...new surrounds, new foam in woofers and tweets, new caps on xovers and clean the cabs up to match with the 240's.
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Just a note..this 250's drivers are stamped 1985. The serial # for this cab is 00767 and the woofers is 3105...so this is an early 250. The 044ti tweet has the old style dome too.
 
The cap in the speaker might just roll off the highs going to the woofer. It could probably catch fire, explode and short and still not hurt the woofer.

Yes I believe the amp blew up and there is invisible, internal electrical damage to some components and these must be found and replaced along with any components affected by this meltdown.
 
The cap in the speaker might just roll off the highs going to the woofer. It could probably catch fire, explode and short and still not hurt the woofer.

Yes I believe the amp blew up and there is invisible, internal electrical damage to some components and these must be found and replaced along with any components affected by this meltdown.

OK I gotcha on the speaker.

I forgot to mention that my powered sub was on the speaker A switch at the time too (250's on B)...and it was playing fine right after this happened. I didnt let the receiver on long enough afterwards to tell if the left 250 was playing..since it is has its own relay. With the 240's and the 250's side by side its hard to tell which is playing or not...and the 240's were still playing through the #2 receiver via pre-out of #1.

Soon as I can find a trustworthy service center/person to send it too...off it goes. I wont risk powering it up to do any checking since I dont know what to look for anyway.
 
Derp...the bottom comes of easy. :rolleyes: But still...nothing looks abnormal or overheated to me.
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Does anyone think there is a chance that the large filter caps could have been taken out? Thats what I fear the most since the two 10000uF 120v caps are NLA. I do know everything is speculation at this point.
 
There are caps that might work. Same/more capacitance, same/more voltage maybe even fit and have the same connection scheme. I would think about replacing them as a repair/restore takes shape on this unit.
 
There are caps that might work. Same/more capacitance, same/more voltage maybe even fit and have the same connection scheme. I would think about replacing them as a repair/restore takes shape on this unit.

I hope so..I was reading CohibaJoe's posts when he restored his 117 back in 2013 and he was having problem finding those caps too. Now if I can just find a place to service it. One place I tried in Central PA near me has never dealt with an R-117 and cant even get to look at them for weeks...so it will come down to shipping them which I was trying to avoid.

I guess not a lot of people here have much info on these either...so again...I really appreciate your help.
 
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