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How Does Imaging relate to Dispersion?

Whoops. Corrected above to milliseconds. Thanks.


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Some speakers that image well (TimeWindows, AR Holographics, Frieds,...) are really amazing. I have found that these particular ones do fairly well when set up in even non-optimal conditions. It is really amazing to hear a flat-response speaker that has great imaging as well. It adds a whole other dimension.
Having said that, I still think that for the average listener imaging is somewhat overrated. Even for me sometimes. I usually am not front and center listening to music. I'm in and out, up and around. In those cases, imaging does not count as much as clarity and separation.
Having said THAT... I will still pick a speaker that images well over one that doesn't if I can.
 
jsours said:
for the average listener imaging is somewhat overrated. Even for me sometimes. I usually am not front and center listening to music. I'm in and out, up and around. In those cases, imaging does not count as much as clarity and separation.
Having said THAT... I will still pick a speaker that images well over one that doesn't if I can.
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Agreed. I listen sometimes critically, but I also love to cook in the kitchen and hear, say, Norah Jones belting out some lyrics in the other room; really adds to whole atmosphere of the home.
 
dumptruck said:
Absolutely, but on the speaker design side, it's not always totally obvious what that means. For example, if you're going to have a significant early reflection, which of these would you want it to look like?
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Wouldn't that depend on where the measurement is taken (on or off axis), dump?
 
tomlinmgt said:
Wouldn't that depend on where the measurement is taken (on or off axis), dump?
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That measurement would be taken anechoically on whatever axis ends up creating your first reflection(s) in some particular room. In other words, I meant the response of the reflection. I was thinking of around 45-50° horizontal when I drew that, comparing something people would label "constant directivity" with something people would label "narrow dispersion". I totally just made it up to illustrate the point, though.
 
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Zonker92 said:
Generally speaking, and assuming a room is fairly reflective of sound, does broad dispersion tend to vary inversely with (or impair) good imaging, by virtue of unpredictable / undesirable reflections off the walls, floor and/or ceiling?

In this scenario, and assuming one is willing to confine one's listening position to a single perfect sweet spot, is the ideal loudspeaker for imaging one that has extremely limited ("spotlight") dispersion? And does this mean that speakers with narrow dispersion tend generally to have better imaging (in that sweet spot) than ones with broad dispersion?

I'm curious, because while I've always read that broad, uniform dispersion is desirable, I have trouble reconciling that with the idea that unpredictable reflections could tend to impair good imaging. Does this mean that one has to choose between good dispersion and good imaging, or is there a happy medium somewhere?

And what about speakers with rear and/or side radiation? How can they achieve good imaging in the face of unpredictable room reflections?

Thanks.
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This is >the< question I spent many years of my career investigating. For example:

http://www.kenkantor.com/publications/magic_speaker/magic_speaker.pdf

-k
 
sm19422 said:
This is one area where a thesis statement can't even begin to cover all of the subject matter involved.

I myself prefer the narrow baffle over the wide baffle designs for imaging when it comes to one tweeter and one mid bass driver in an enclosure.
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Then you need to go hear a set of Devore Orangutans (and be prepared to reevaluate your position). I used to think the same way.
 
Is my thinking correct...

Dispersion is solely a factor of speaker design
Imaging and soundstage are affected by all components as well as the source material

:scratch2:
 
I ask because I recently upgraded my speaker cable (no, do not take this as a cable debate) and found something I did not expect. I expected/hoped for more lower detailed lows and smoother airy hi's, but instead imaging improved immensely. The freq spectrum...no change. But the instruments all became focused and clarified (like the merging of two identical images overlayed on an overhead projector). The image became clear. A very satisfying result. :music:
 
It's been my experience that there are several factors that can influence imaging and sound stage production, but speaker design (namely its dispersion characteristics) and room interaction tend to be the most influential.
 
Valveglow said:
I don't know anything about their dispersion characteristics, but the cabinet woodworking is astounding.
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In a modern showroom amongst a roster of competitors that is practically nothing but narrow baffle designs, their wide front baffle makes them look out of place. Admittedly, the first time I saw them (and knew nothing about them) I thought certainly the wide front baffle would handicap their ability to image and throw up a muli-dimensional sound stage.

My assumptions couldn't have been more incorrect.

But, then again, I shouldn't have been so surprised. My EV Interface C II's have a cartoonishly wide front baffle and they too do not seem to suffer much wrt imaging and sound stage production.

But those Devore Orangutans are remarkably transparent and resolving....not any different than what I'm used to hearing from planars and ESL's.
 
tomlinmgt said:
Then you need to go hear a set of Devore Orangutans (and be prepared to reevaluate your position). I used to think the same way.
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I state my opinion from hearing the same exact drivers in two different enclosures.
The sloped front truncated pyramids compared to a wider flat baffle enclosure designed by Fried.
Reflections and diffraction due effect imaging and dispersion patterns.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1115259466&read&keyw&zzslanted+baffle
 
sm19422 said:
I state my opinion from hearing the same exact drivers in two different enclosures.
The sloped front truncated pyramids compared to a wider flat baffle enclosure designed by Fried.
Reflections and diffraction due effect imaging and dispersion patterns.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1115259466&read&keyw&zzslanted+baffle
Click to expand...

By and large I don't disagree with your observation and will always lean toward narrow baffle monopole, constant directivity horn/WG or dipole designs....but the Devores are cheating the physics you and I subscribe to. That's for sure.
 
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