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How good is a REK O KUT B-12 Rondine??

Thundermud

Thundermud

Active Member
Been thinking about this turntable but heard mixed reviews. Some say if properly restored it can be on par or outperform a TD-124! Looks super well built and cool! Are there sonic differences between the B-12 motor and the B-12H? Anyone here have a fully restored Rek that can share their thoughts?
 
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Well-built it certainly is. I have a B-12H which is about to get the treatment so I can't as yet comment on the ultimate potential from a personal standpoint. I can say that I have a heard a couple that sounded astounding (why I sought one out for myself) and neither of them had really been taken anywhere near what can be done with them. I'll let you know in a few months from now if all goes according to plan.

One thing I think I can say going in is that no matter what is done the end product is likely to sounds rather different than a TD-124. The B-12 is a very directly coupled machine in terms of the drive and has incredible torque. Whatever is done to tame the beast I suspect that these attributes will always be present in the sound.
 
hello. I strongly believe that from today perspective simpler l34 is a better starting point for rebuilding. a smaller top plate allows for tonearm isolation. drive mechanism is almost the same in practice. I have both and l34 is my daily choice. Robert.
 
robnec said:
hello. I strongly believe that from today perspective simpler l34 is a better starting point for rebuilding. a smaller top plate allows for tonearm isolation. drive mechanism is almost the same in practice. I have both and l34 is my daily choice. Robert.
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I have a fully rebuilt Rondine Jr L-37 and am disappointed with the noise floor. especially with a moving coil cartridge which seems to really amplify the mechanical vibrations caused by the motor.

The factory specs state that the B-12 is quieter than the L-34 and L-37 But the B-12 H is the quietest.

Here's some text the manufacturer supplied to High Fidelity magazine in 1955. I pulled it off a PDF i have. I'm sure you can find the full doc out on the internet.
Rek-O-Kut Rondines
SPECIFICATIONS (furnished by manufacturer): a line of 12-in rim-driven turntables in three price ranges. All have heavy, dynamically-balanced aluminum tables with cork-neoprene mats, strobe disc sections, and retractable built-in 45- rpm hubs. All have single-knob speed controls with automatic drive disengagement in "off''' positions.
MODEL L•34
Speeds: 33 1/3 and.4S rpm.
Motor: 4-pole induction.
Noise: 40 db below average recording level.

MODEL B-12
Speeds: 33 1/ 3,45, a nd 78 rpm,
Motor: 4-pole induction.
Noise: better than 40 db below average recording level.
MODEL B•12H
Same as for B-I2 except that a hysteresis-synchronous motor is used ;
noise is better than 50 db below average recording level.

Prices :
model L-34 and L-37 (Rondinc Jr .), $49.95;
model B-I2 (Rondine). $74.95;
model B-12H (Rondine D eluxe), $11 9.95.
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robnec said:
hello. I strongly believe that from today perspective simpler l34 is a better starting point for rebuilding. a smaller top plate allows for tonearm isolation. drive mechanism is almost the same in practice. I have both and l34 is my daily choice. Robert.
Click to expand...

Brett a said:
I have a fully rebuilt Rondine Jr L-37 and am disappointed with the noise floor. especially with a moving coil cartridge which seems to really amplify the mechanical vibrations caused by the motor.
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I just finished restoring an L-34 (polished everything and replaced all of the rubber parts), and mounted it in a massive plywood plinth.

Rumble has been completely tamed, although to be fair, I am using it with a mono arm/cartridge, which inherently reduces the noise floor. I have yet to try it with a stereo arm/cartridge.
 
hello. I know that b12 is a better turntable by specs. I was trying to look at it from a rebuilder position and I still think l34 can be transformed to superior one. in my view the possibility of mounting an arm to the plinth alone out weights all the rest. platters and bearings are the same, motors / hyst one excluded/ are basicly the same and idler mounting also are similar. when installed in proper plinth my l34 rumbles less which I checked with stethoscope. I have the motors redone, new idlers and new grommets installed in both. I am just talking about my experience and work. Robert.
 
You can easily mount the arm on the plinth of a B12H, you just mount the turntable
turned sideways, with the speed control on the upper right. The mounting hole on the top plate was for their own arm. They are fantastic tables.
 
Really great comments here! I appreciate the insight. Maybe I should have mentioned the Garrard 301/401 instead of the 124 since they are direct drive like the Rek's. I'm thinking whichever model I get, it might be worth getting a slate plinth vs the wood for superior isolation and less rumble. The build quality seems over the top with the higher end Rek's that I can't imagine the Rek sounding sonically inferior to other top end idlers.
 
Thundermud said:
Really great comments here! I appreciate the insight. Maybe I should have mentioned the Garrard 301/401 instead of the 124 since they are direct drive like the Rek's.
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To be clear, none of these are direct drives, all are idler drives. (I'm sure you know that already.)
 
The B12's have 78 rpm where the L 34 is only 33 1/3 and 45 rpm capable. If you ever want to play old 78's that is something to consider. The Garrard's both the 301's and 401's will spin 78's. My B12 HG is pretty quite other than a slight hum at high volumes, that I have not yet worked out on the lower speeds but on 78's the floor noise picks up. I have some Empire tables that are belt drives and it is much quieter as far as rumble and floor noise. But some of the 78's can be quite heavy and with the Empire being a suspended on some LP's the extra weight causes the platter to scrape the plinth. I am sure I could have tighten up the suspension to make it work but I don't play 78's that often, and am going to work with the Rec O Kut to see if I can't get the noise more tolerable. Since I have not done anything other than just buy the table build a plinth and start playing it I can imagine I can get it a bit quieter.
 
Ken Boyd said:
The B12's have 78 rpm where the L 34 is only 33 1/3 and 45 rpm capable. If you ever want to play old 78's that is something to consider.
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The Rondine Junior L-37 is identical to the L-34 except the L37 plays LPs and 78s instead of 45s. This is what I have I play LPs and 78s only so I don't need/miss a 45 rpm option.
 
The fact that my L-34 lacks 78 speed is a major bummer, especially seeing how I am using it with a GE VRII. I'd be just as bummed with an L-37 not being able to spin 45s.

If I hadn't just gone through great effort to restore and build a nice plinth for my L-34, I'd consider selling it and buying a B-12, but that ain't gonna happen now!

Fortunately I have two other tables with 78 capability.
 
beatcomber said:
I just finished restoring an L-34 (polished everything and replaced all of the rubber parts), and mounted it in a massive plywood plinth.

Rumble has been completely tamed, although to be fair, I am using it with a mono arm/cartridge, which inherently reduces the noise floor. I have yet to try it with a stereo arm/cartridge.
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I guess it's all relative. My Rondine L-37 with a mono cartridge has quite a high noise floor. The motor and other extraneous vibrations do radiate on the horizontal plane; maybe mostly on the horizontal plane if you think about it.

Just for yuks, if we can get the noise floor on these things down 10 db better than original spec to 50db (which would seem improbable), if we listen in the 80+db range, that's still a minimum of 30 to 40 db of extraneous noise coming through during "silent" passages. (add to that any noise the needle in the groove is making as well)

So if the ambient sound in your room is 25 db (pretty quiet) you're going to clearly hear the table itself from the listening position. If, on the other hand, the ambient sound in your room is 40 or 50 db, you might not hear it so much because the noise floor of the table will be below the "noise floor" of the room.

All I know is the Rondine Jr. I restored is a lot of really great things, but quiet ain't one of them.

Also, my reference is my Well Tempered which has a phenomenal s/n ratio. I can't even tell if it's going to make sound until the needle reaches the music. (Which can actually be unsettling; I kind of expect to hear something when I start a record).

I think it's something to keep in mind. None of these Rek-O-Kuts will ever have inky black backgrounds. If a high signal to noise ratio is a priority, you risk being disappointed. I took that risk and was. But I still love the machine and use it nearly every day.

One great thing is they will likely only go up in value. So think of yourself as a steward, take good care of it, and cash it in in the future. You won't lose money and you might even make some.
 
I'm going to make a needledrop of my L-34 tonight and post it here. Sometimes that's what it takes to really evaluate how quiet a turntable is!

Question for you, Brett...
I can hear the idler wheel running against the rim quite clearly from 2-3 feet away. I was hoping that getting the tire rebuilt and Dynamatting the platter would fix that, but no dice. My Dual 1219 and Thorens TD-124 make no such noise, so I'm wondering if this is normal.

It doesn't cause any noise through the speakers, but if there's something I've overlooked, I'd like to rectify it. (I have already polished the platter rim and motor pulley, and lubed the shaft that the idler wheels ride on.)
 
beatcomber said:
Question for you, Brett...
I can hear the idler wheel running against the rim quite clearly from 2-3 feet away.

(...) I'm wondering if this is normal.

It doesn't cause any noise through the speakers,(...)
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Yes, I can hear mine running from a couple feet away with the same level of restoration that you've done to yours. But I don't know why you can't hear it through your speakers. It would seem if the turntable is making those vibrations, they'd get picked up by the cartridge.

But as i said before. It's all relative. For example, I have a 12" pedestal fan running just outside the open door to this room, about twelve feet from where I'm sitting, and the hum from that fan is enough to drown out the noise floor of the 'table. I could see some folks calling that quiet. But I don't always have a fan running, so for me, it's not quiet enough for a main 'table. (I usually shut that fan off when I listen to music)
 
Hello. I got home half an hour ago and played some music. After reading your posts I went to the spinning rok and had to put my ear to it to hear an idler running. There has to be something seriously wrong if one can hear a turntable working louder than music from several feet. Robert
 
beatcomber said:
How does this short clip compare to the rumble on your ROK, Brett?:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39332736/cartridges/ROK_monk.aiff
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I listened with closed 'phones and I have to say it seems quieter than I ever got mine. Maybe you've got the right combination of a true mono cartridge and moving magnet. I've only ever had stereo moving magnet and now a mono moving coil. The stereo moving magnet was pretty good, but not as good as your sample. The new MC mono cart is quite loud by comparison.

Thanks for sharing that. It's real useful to hear what these can sound like in their original configuration (idler drive, heavy arm, mono moving magnet)

The fact you used "Monk's Dream is a real bonus. I've been digging really deep into his catalog just these past few weeks. Some of his Columbia LPs are my favorite.

I probably won't have time to match your sample with one of my own until later in the week.
 
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