How loud is 85 dB? Pretty damn loud I say!

[Kreshna]

THX reference level is often described as '85 dB average, 105 dB peak', which, depending on the speakers' sensitivity, may require quite a lot of power. Thus I couldn't help but wonder: how loud 85 dB actually is? Then I tried to measure it using the secondary system in the garage, also using an SPL meter app on my old Android phone (which now serves as my clock). Loudspeakers are JBL L20Ts, amplifier is Sansui A-40, and I hold the phone at probably 15 centimeters from the speakers. My typical listening position of course isn't that close, but I listen nearfield anyway.

I held the phone with the sound meter running while playing a test song. I chose a 80's pop named Touch By Touch by Joy, because it seems to be dynamically compressed, so there won't be much variation in amplitude. Then I gradually turned up the volume until I couldn't stand it anymore.

Even 80 dB is already too loud for me.

Turned out I stopped at 80 dB.

Yes, 80 dB is already too loud for me. And I probably heard slightly less than that, because the Android phone (with the SPL meter app running) was slightly closer to the speakers than my head was. And yet it already caused hearing discomfort, and I dared not to raise the volume until the meter read 85 dB, because I simply couldn't bear it anymore. No, it wasn't painful yet, but I just couldn't bear such loudness.

So, when THX mentioned 85 dB average and 105 dB peak as their 'reference level', are they out of their bloody mind??? Were they trying to make people deaf? According to this site, living room music is 76 dB, while 85 dB is the sound of industrial milling machine! Long time ago, when I was still a university student, we had to wear hearing protection during mechanical engineering laboratory practicum, because those machines were pretty loud.

On the other hand, 76 dB sounds reasonably loud for living room music. When measuring with the SPL meter app, 75 dB is the loudest I could continuously hear without discomfort.

It's interesting to note that JBL L20Ts have 87 dB / 1 watt / 1 meter sensitivity. Thus, listening at 80 dB from such close distance takes even less than 1 watt from the Sansui A-40's 25 wrms per channel. Then couldn't help but think of Klipschorn, and shudder at the thought of how loud the speakers are at 1 watt from one meter distance.

Yes, I knew your mileage may vary, but isn't 85 dB way too loud?

 

[OMGCat!]

I'd try a real SPL meter before trusting your phone. I have an Iphone SE and using two different apps I get SPL readings almost 10db apart (same source, in this case pink noise). It might just be my phone or these particular apps but I don't really trust them anymore.

 

[sKiZo]

My trusty old BSR analog meter shows average listening levels here in the 90db range with peaks around 105db. I'd think much lower levels would make your ears bleed if the room wasn't properly voiced ...

 

[turnitdown]

Also, use the distance-from-source measurement that reference is measured at.

 

[tromba]

I'd try a real SPL meter before trusting your phone. I have an Iphone SE and using two different apps I get SPL readings almost 10db apart (same source, in this case pink noise). It might just be my phone or these particular apps but I don't really trust them anymore.

I agree.... I have a Radio Shack sound level meter and another dedicated sound level meter (Forgot the brand, but cheap on the bay) and 3 apps on my Android. I have gotten a 30 db difference from them. I wish there was a way to calibrate these but probably one needs to spend thousands to get a real accurate measurement . (I've measured my trumpet around 110db right at the bell. No wonder my hearing isn't great after nearly 60 years of playing....)

 

[SteveA]

Certainly don't trust phone app. On mine 85dB is very quiet and normal listening measures 100 and peaking over 110.

 

[slimecity]

For very general comparison....

 

[Blue Shadow]

How loud is 85dB? It is the average daily loudness at which OSHA requires ongoing hearing tests and hearing protection programs in a facility. The time weighted average of 85dB or more and there is a bunch more work to do to protect employees long term. Guess this means it is a level that can cause long term damage if enjoyed with music or endured with loud environments.

 

[jobrewer1983]

While I'd not trust the app, this was still a great read.

I always wanted to measure my L-150s and SX-1250 combo. That set up had my neighbors freak out one evening. Had the guy above me run down and say I was "shaking **** off his walls". I felt bad, but at the same time explained to him I hear him all the time with his subwoofer when they would watch movies. He was quite interisted in my set up after that. We had a good laugh but he was quite shocked lol! That set up was crazy loud.

Now running a 120wpc amp with some stand mount monitors. Sound quality is fantastic at lower levels but do get to blast it every so often.

Great post!

Kind Regards,
John

 

[jobrewer1983]

For very general comparison....

View attachment 1042537

Well... a blow dryer louder than a motorcycle. A little off but good chart!

 

[whoaru99]

How loud is 85dB? It is the average daily loudness at which OSHA requires ongoing hearing tests and hearing protection programs in a facility. The time weighted average of 85dB or more and there is a bunch more work to do to protect employees long term. Guess this means it is a level that can cause long term damage if enjoyed with music or endured with loud environments.

The key point here is average level. 85-90dB or even higher for few songs is not an 85dB daily average.

Nobody should listen at levels that makes them uncomfortable, but at least for me, there are a few songs in any give session that deserve cranking up but the average level is much less.

 

[jrtrent]

Yes, I knew your mileage may vary, but isn't 85 dB way too loud?

Prompted by a similar thread some time ago, I ordered a sound pressure meter. At the listening position (about 13 feet from the speakers), the meter reading bounces around mostly between 43 and 51, with occasional peaks in the upper 50's. Following my landlord's advice, I've always tried to keep the stereo at a volume where I would not need to raise my voice to carry on a conversation. The chart slimecity posted seems in line with my experience, as does an article I read some time ago saying that background sound above 50 dB would impede understanding words spoken at a normal 60 dB level.

 

[Blue Shadow]

The key point here is average level. 85-90dB or even higher for few songs is not an 85dB daily average.

Nobody should listen at levels that makes them uncomfortable, but at least for me, there are a few songs in any give session that deserve cranking up but the average level is much less.

But I answered the question.

There are some here that enjoy earbleed volume on a regular basis. Using lots of their high powered gear with sensitive speakers. Well above the 85 db level. And they do it a lot. I listen loud at times but not for long and not frequently. For anything that isn't music, I like to wear ear plugs when the noise is in the range of 80dB and up.

 

[Alobar]

Hearing damage is like any other form of damage, it is based on duration times intensity. Be out in the sun in the tropics for a half hour, probably no serious burn, but all day a different story.

I let ear discomfort be my guide when listening to loud music.

 

[Chris Brown]

One thing that is important to consider is that our ears don't hear "flat". The threshold of discomfort, and the potential for hearing-damage, changes depending on the frequency of the sound. Human hearing is most sensitive to sound frequencies in the upper vocal range. Conversely, human hearing is fairly tolerant of low-frequency sound. It's not difficult to pass 85dB with music that has lots of low-frequency content, and that content is what also tends to be the most power hungry.

 

[I LIKE MUSIC]

Hearing discomfort may not be the best indicator of levels that may cause hearing damage.

Remember that the suggested intensities/time of exposure are based on averages determined by research. The impact tends to be a Gaussian distribution. The impact is not the same for everyone.

If you happen to be an outlier on the high side of the curve, your risk of hearing damage is lower, but if you are on the lower side of the curve your risk of hearing damage is higher.

BTW, the human ear is rather clever. Along these lines the human ear has a method (acoustic stapedius reflex) to reduce the energy that is transferred from the ear drum via the ossicles to the cochlea. This threshold can vary from about 70 dB A weighted to 90 dB A weighted, depending on the signal (pure tone, broadband noise and so on) and the person.

In any any discussion of "how loud" there will likely be those that will claim that they listen they have listened at very high SPLs for extended periods of time for most of their life and their hearing is still excellent, on par with the average 20 year old. This may be true for them, but it is certainly not true for everyone.

To be clear I am not the SPL police, I am just sharing some general information.

 

[Todd Dodds]

I keep 2 meters handy at the listening position because I fiddle around quite a bit trying to balance the sound level from different sets of speakers...two listening seats, actually, due to two walls of speakers. I figure the SPL at listening position is what matters for my purposes.
K-horns from 22 feet away can sound pretty comfortable, even though the meter bobbles around 85.
Good rock and full orchestra music, usually at 85-90 (at seat)
Acoustic, folk and jazz is usually in the 75 range.
Dylan and the Band...95+

It just seems to me that what one listens to at home should (within reason) approximate what you'd hear at the live venue.

 

[Northwinds]

I don't know how many db's but I had that Cerwin Vega A-2200 max cranked using a APT Holman preamp (volume to the detent) w/ gain levels on the back of the amp at max, Sony CD player and modified Bose 501 series IV speakers going in the garage and it was not uncomfortably loud to my ears. The amp puts out 200wpc @ 8ohms and 375wpc @ 4ohms

Maybe I am just used to louder music? I am pretty sure I was pushing at least 100db's easily, CD I was playing was April Wine's - Nature of the Beast AAD version. I will say the Bose 501's sucked up everything the amp had (or what the preamp's gain allowed) with no clipping/distortion, sounded awesome

I agree with Todd, if it's not approximately live sounding, it's not as enjoyable to my ears

 

[Todd Dodds]

I don't know how many db's but I had that Cerwin Vega A-2200 max cranked using a APT Holman preamp (volume to the detent) w/ gain levels on the back of the amp at max, Sony CD player and modified Bose 501 series IV speakers going in the garage and it was not uncomfortably loud to my ears. The amp puts out 200wpc @ 8ohms and 375wpc @ 4ohms

Maybe I am just used to louder music? I am pretty sure I was pushing at least 100db's easily, CD I was playing was April Wine's - Nature of the Beast AAD version. I will say the Bose 501's sucked up everything the amp had (or what the preamp's gain allowed) with no clipping/distortion, sounded awesome

I agree with Todd, if it's not approximately live sounding, it's not as enjoyable to my ears

And I reckon most Flying V players would naturally lean towards the "Loud is Good" philosophy?

 

[whoaru99]

...
It just seems to me that what one listens to at home should (within reason) approximate what you'd hear at the live venue.

For me, I think it's as much about my mood as anything. I'm usually content to listen at moderate level no matter the material. However, every now and then I hit a mood where nothing suffices except a face-melting rendition of something like Godsmack's Re-Align.