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How much Elite is in Elite separates

Pioneer.user

Pioneer.user

Active Member
This thread Will be educational. It was inspired by one dudes experience. He saw once Elite separates components for sale for small amount of money, but he didnt buy it cause his brain was programmed to label everything black as black plastic crap.
So we Will answear this question, is Elite components (True Elite components not audio video receivers vsx) bpc?

First of all. Pioneer c90/c90a/c91, m90/m90a /m91 front panels are not plastic but made of aluminium.

Next, how about build quality? How about components used to build Elite Gear?

- output transistors are toshibas a1516, the same transistors are used in few accuphase amps including 12.500 usd high end accuphase p800.
-u con capacitors are the same used i many other high quality amps like 12.000 usd luxman m06/c06 combo, tubę amp luxman cl360/mq360, 9000 usd denon das1 dac etc
-soshin mika capacitors, the same are used in pioneer exclusive c7 and other
- polypropylene film caps, the same are used for example in 9000 usd denon das1 dac, sansui alpha, sansui b2201, 907i
-nichicon mylar film caps, used also in pioneer exclusive c7 preamp, luxman amps
-wiring used in building Elite components are pure Ofc wires, internal wiring and power cables, Just like in pioneer exclusive gear
-chassis are copper plated

Pioneer c90/c90a/c91 phono stage has exceptional build quality. Phono is built on 2 step up transformer which was unusuall even in 80. It is True non compromise phono stage build quality, seen nowadays in high end phono stages.
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Conclusion

Is Elite bpc? Not even close. Build wise its high quality Gear that can rival spec (which is not better built) and its better sound wise and build wise than any pioneer receiver. So not everything thats black is crap. Time to remember that.

Below for reference, True black plastic crap with plastic front and defiled Elite tag. Sc lx 901

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The biggest tell of that Pioneer's build quality is the copper plated chassis, and screws, only ever seen that attention to detail on totl gear ime.

Growing up in the 90's it was the black faced gear I lusted after, I thought that silver faced gear was just old rubbish. Wasn't until I actually heard vintage gear compared to modern that I realised how wrong I was.

It's easy to group similar looking gear together, and there was a big change in build quality of mid, and lower end gear in the 80's there was still a lot of great stuff at the higher end ( I have a JVC M-L10 from '89 that is gorgeous).
 
AudioAvarice said:
The biggest tell of that Pioneer's build quality is the copper plated chassis, and screws, only ever seen that attention to detail on totl gear ime.

Growing up in the 90's it was the black faced gear I lusted after, I thought that silver faced gear was just old rubbish. Wasn't until I actually heard vintage gear compared to modern that I realised how wrong I was.
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The copper screws and chassis are truly a testament to how well built the Elite equipment was, the black Elite. C90/c90a/c91, m90/m90a/m91, although black, is built better than any Pioneer receiver, even the SX 1980.

Pioneer spec from 70s also does not have such a construction. Elite power amplifier has 2 transformers and dual mono construction, elite preamplifier has 3 transformers and is better built than spec preamp. It weights 70lbs.Real top of the line gear from 80s.
 
Interesting thread. I would suggest folks also take a look at the Pioneer Z-Series components as well. The build quality is the best I have ever seen (IMHO). The Z-Series took over where the Exclusive Series left off.

For example, any capacitor in the Audio chain is a Pioneer custom made, glass cased capacitor. The boards are 3mm Epoxy/glass with 140um thick traces.

I have been collecting/restoring Z-Series components for several years and the modular design makes servicing a breeze.

Other than Accuphase components, I have not seen this quality elsewhere, once again, my observations.

Thanks for letting me comment.
 
KevinB said:
Other than Accuphase components, I have not seen this quality elsewhere, once again, my observations.
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Yeah mz1/cz1 also has great build quality. It has some similarities to Elite gear ; ofc wiring, encased capacitors and non standard brass caps resistors used in circuit.
 
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And here proof that build quality of Elite is as good as other high end gear. Elite c90/m90 and tube set luxman pre cl360 amp mq360


Elite c90.
Marked:nichicon mylar film caps, ucon capacitors, soshin mica caps.
Cables used in preamp: ofc wires hirakawa, sumitomo, hitachi
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Luxman cl360 tube preamp
Marked: ucon caps, nichicon mylar film caps, ofc wiring by hirakawa, sumitomo
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pobrane.jpeg
 
Someone is not feeling the love and has decided to post about the Elite because they get no respect. Folks want silver, Folks want receivers, Spec and SX, nothing else counts.

Boy are they missing the good stuff!!!
 
Blue Shadow said:
Someone is not feeling the love and has decided to post about the Elite because they get no respect. Folks want silver, Folks want receivers, Spec and SX, nothing else counts.

Boy are they missing the good stuff!!!
Click to expand...
As a past owner of Elite gearz I agree with your assessment.
 
We've done this dance before where a newcomer comes into the Pioneer thread and starts dissing various Pioneer models.
Its not appropriate behavior, and is not a welcome approach to the site. Poster has been warned. Post deleted.
 
Bumpalump said:
Aint the truth better than anothing else?
Im sharing my knowledge, no hate.
People spend their hard earned money for audio, why are you discrediting my help?
I dont said Pioneer is bad, i said there are better units than Pioneer Elite for the money.
And I said the true hi-end was Spec and Exclusive series.
Click to expand...
I warned you once - now you are BANNED from ALL the Pioneer threads.
So 10 posts from you and people arguing with you are also deleted.
Please, lets keep these threads civil and friendly, there is no point into
going into a brand forum and tearing down their products.
People like what they like, its their right to enjoy the marque they prefer.
 
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FWIW, My 2 different ,heavy as hell, model Pioneer Elite series laser disc players (a CLD-95, and a Pioneer made and a Mc. modified/rebadged) Mc. MLD-7020), both from the early nineties still preform un-serviced flawlessly, even with high hundreds of hrs. of playing time !
They even sound excellent via their analog outputs when playing Red book CDs !

These 2 players are the only Pioneer brand, Elite or otherwise electronics that I currently own, and I couldn`t be happier with their long trouble free and A/V performance.
 
Pioneer Elite c90 measurements
Review and measurements from Stereo magazine from 80s

Most unusual for a preamplifier, the C-90 has three separate power supplies (including their power transformers). Two are for the left and right channels, and the third operates the video circuits, relays, and display panel.

For one thing, the C-90’s frequency response (including the RIAA equalization accuracy) is as flat as that of the finest CD players, and better than most. For another, its signal-to-noise ratio is considerably better (especially when referred to 2 volts output) than that of any CD player,

To be fair, we must point out that while this performance on the test bench is a technical achievement of considerable magnitude, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the C-90 will sound any better than other top-quality preamplifiers.

I think it is safe to say, however, that the C-90 at least ranks with the best in the field."

https://www.hifi-classic.net/review/pioneer-c-90-161.html#google_vignette. Full review
 
And to compare Signal to noise ratios:
Pioneer m90a :124db, c90 106.5db

Pioneer spec 1:90db, spec 2: 110db (circuit based on pioneer exclusive c3, m3)

Pioneer sx 1980 : 100db

Pioneer Elite snr definitely isnt worse than spec And sx 1980. In fact is better
 
Distortion measurements, pioneer Elite, exclusive and other

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As we can see, pioneer Elite distortion graph is almost completely flat, almost no distortion. Better distortion measurement than pioneer spec And not only
Of course it doesnt mean that Sounds better than other gear, its a matter of personal tastes.

Graphs taken from Japanese service guy, Japanese site
 
Pioneer.user said:
Sounds better
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Conventional wisdom being that second-order distortion is euphonious, I imagine the Luxman is the real winner here. I wonder how the heck it produces that kind of residual?

Sincere apologies for the OT, but I was really struck by that.
 
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