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How much of the classic Altec sound is in the horns?

T

TroutBear

Member
I’m selecting components for a 2 way system using a Seas Exotic T35 mid-tweeter and a 12 in woofer. Have used the Seas driver in a KLM 17 rebuild and been very pleased with them. These are widely - I’d think - different approaches but the choices I’ve been pondering are Altec 414 (8 ohms) in and 3.2 cu ft cabinet crossed over between 1600 - 2100 Hz or just rehab’ing KLH model 6 or 23 with crossover rebuild and the Seas driver. Read plenty of great things on vintage Altec and the new speakers will be driven from either a Mac 5100 or Mac C24 & just completed Dynakitparts ST35 with Dave G board set including the EFB. And no, there are no Altec available nearby for a sound check to help the decision along So how much of the Altec sound is in the compression drivers and horns? Would the 414s be worth the premium as woofers? Primary listening is jazz piano - Bill Evan and similar - plus female jazz vocals
 
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After considerable experience I think the classic Altec character comes from the midrange reproduction of the woofers. For instance my A5 VOTs with 515B woofers and 288 compression drivers on tar filled Altec 1005 multicell horns still sounded classically Altec when used with JBL compression drivers on either the Altec multicell horns or on Edgar "saladbowl" horns. And the rather small 890C Bolero sounds classically Altec despite its Hepner treble horn because of it's 10" 406-8C woofer was which based on the 414 motor and painstakingly designed by Altec engineers to mimic the sound of the big Altecs.

414s are good bass and superb midrange reproducers.
 
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Appreciate the insight Tom! It falls in with the nice commentary I’ve seen on the woofers but backed with experience in multiple systems. As much is enjoy the East Coast tonal results of the KLHs, I’m ready to explore something else of a vintage nature. I setup complete Altec systems at university in late 70s before we had installed sound reinforcement, but my experience with the brand stopped there - not the same as den systems. Ha! Nice note on the design of the 10 inch 406 also - completely unaware it shared that link with the larger drivers.
 
TroutBear said:
I’m selecting components for a 2 way system using a Seas Exotic T35 mid-tweeter and a 12 in woofer. Have used the Seas driver in a KLM 17 rebuild and been very pleased with them. These are widely - I’d think - different approaches but the choices I’ve been pondering are Altec 414 (8 ohms) in and 3.2 cu ft cabinet crossed over between 1600 - 2100 Hz or just rehab’ing KLH model 6 or 23 with crossover rebuild and the Seas driver. Read plenty of great things on vintage Altec and the new speakers will be driven from either a Mac 5100 or Mac C24 & just completed Dynakitparts ST35 with Dave G board set including the EFB. And no, there are no Altec available nearby for a sound check to help the decision along So how much of the Altec sound is in the compression drivers and horns? Would the 414s be worth the premium as woofers? Primary listening is jazz piano - Bill Evan and similar - plus female jazz vocals
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Bill Evans, female jazz singers and Altec’s. These are a few of my favourite things. Good luck with the build!
 
If you want to hear a big difference use a 288C on a 311 90 versus a 511 with an 802 both crossed over at 500 hz. Then tell me it is the woofer. I preferred two 414's versus a 416, also so yes the woofer make a difference but not much as horns and drivers. What makes a bigger difference in some ways is using a large enough enclosure so you can pad down the sides and rear and not have to use a port. Make the bass more accurate and it extends further down below 30 HZ. Even 515's will reach below 35 HZ in a big box. 20 cu feet plus.
 
twiiii said:
If you want to hear a big difference use a 288C on a 311 90 versus a 511 with an 802 both crossed over at 500 hz. Then tell me it is the woofer. I preferred two 414's versus a 416, also so yes the woofer make a difference but not much as horns and drivers. What makes a bigger difference in some ways is using a large enough enclosure so you can pad down the sides and rear and not have to use a port. Make the bass more accurate and it extends further down below 30 HZ. Even 515's will reach below 35 HZ in a big box. 20 cu feet plus.
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Can you elaborate on your "bass more accurate" comment? Tighter? more dynamic? sharper leading edge?

I am also contemplating dual 12" Altecs (417's with 414 cones). Any guidance there would be appreciated. Thx!
 
analog addict said:
I dunno. I got the disease from a pair of 872B Madrids which don't have a horn, but still have enough of Altec magic in the 420 biflex to send me down the long slippery slope...
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that’s how it works!;)

I Agree with Twiii
On the Altec’s and Horns
The Altec’ Woofers strength is their
Efficientcy and ability to marry with their horns
With Upper Bass and lower midrange.
And Least I forget that BIG Live sound from small amps
 
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Didn't Altec make a coaxial with that same woofer and a G3000 tweeter?
X-ing it over at 3,000hz?
 
601-8D crossed over at 3K, but I still think it's asking too much of a 12" for good lower mids.

I've never heard it so I can't really comment on the actual sound but of the 10" 2-way speakers, (crossed over at 2K) I've heard, there always seems to be a lackluster midrange so I would expect a 12" 2-way crossed over above say 12K to be lacking as well.
 
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I agree malden,
But That still is What makes the Altec woofers special.
my 604's do Vocals like no other speakers at less than 7K.
With 98-99 DB efficiency X-overed at 1500 hz with hardly any mid suck-out, with the right X-overs.
and the 604's use a lightweight 15" 515 based cone,
Unlike Mostly all of my JBL woofersHeavy ribbed cones.
 
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I enjoy my KLH 20’s with a crossover rebuild and the same Seas mid-tweeter planned for the new build. The 20s cross at 1600 and folks say the Altec woofer should be better. Seems worth a try.
 
For a few years I used some Altec 414b in smallish cabs, run full range, with a small horn brought in very high. They sounded great.

Only the woofers were Altec. The horns were Dayton and the HF drivers were Renkus Heinz.
 
The 1803B can produce quite an enormous waveform...like being in front of the band at the stage.

The H-808 is a nice horn for near-field. It was used with the Iconic monitors of the day is probably why...

Dunno about the classic sound, but I could tell the difference.

H808 altec.jpg
 
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malden said:
601-8D crossed over at 3K, but I still think it's asking too much of a 12" for good lower mids.

I've never heard it so I can't really comment on the actual sound but of the 10" 2-way speakers, (crossed over at 2K) I've heard, there always seems to be a lackluster midrange so I would expect a 12" 2-way crossed over above say 12K to be lacking as well.
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I crossover the JBL 2251Js (~10") to the Great Heils at 3kHz and the midrange detail is to die for. It depends on the 10". Just be content to sit in the sweet spot and not off to the side. These are a 2.5 way. My thought is that if we can keep the vocal range in one speaker, we make it more coherent. This pays off in spades as these are the best soundstage/imaging speakers I have heard..., and I have some very "heavy hitters" at the professional level.

 
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toddalin said:
I crossover the JBL 2251Js (~10") to the Great Heils at 3kHz and the midrange detail is to die for. It depends on the 10". Just be content to sit in the sweet spot and not off to the side. These are a 2.5 way. My thought is that if we can keep the vocal range in one speaker, we make it more coherent. This pays off in spades as these are the best soundstage/imaging speakers I have heard..., and I have some very "heavy hitters" at the professional level.
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I'm sure that 2251J is a great midrange but how low does it go?
 
Plenty low to meet the 2241H 18" woofer in the 2.5-way configuration. The 2241H crosses over at ~350Hz.
 
malden said:
yes, worth a try for sure.

Is that tweeter really $450 ?
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Was $405 when I bought a pair several months back - jumped the $426 now I see. There's a non-ALNICO version at $332 w/ same range. Just consider it less than horns and compression driver - I know apples and ... but since I lack space for horns
 
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