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How much to spend on MC phono preamp and MC cartridge ?

oscarinovp

oscarinovp

Active Member
I am seriously considering a moving coil (MC) cartridge as part of my search for a Turntable upgrade. Unfortunately, it's doubtful my current phono preamp (Grado PH-1) will be a good match for even a high output MC cartridge. Say, I have $1500 budget for phono MC-capable preamp (or step up transformer?) and MC cartridge, where should most of the money be spent ?

Or should I consider a high dollar MM cartridge instead (e.g. Clearaudio Maestro MM) ?
 
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If you like your PH1, keep it and get a step-up transformer for your MC, instead of an active MC stage, is my advice. A dual-ratio 1:10 and 1:20 will handle all but the weakest oddball MC cartridges. The SUT will work with any MM stage, and removes loading fussiness from the mix. Then spend the remainder on the MC cartridge.

An MI alternative would be the London Decca Super Gold, if your tonearm is suitable. It beats my MC carts, to my ears, and needs no SUT.
 
oscarinovp said:
where should most of the money be spent ?
Click to expand...

In my first MC setup, the cartridge was 4x the cost of the phono stage. (Dynavector Ruby cart and an Emotiva XPS-1 phono stage)

Now, though, things are reversed (AT ART9 cart with a Parasound JC3+).

In between, I had costs balanced (AT OC9 cart with a Lehman Black Cube.)

I think some variation on the Black Cube setup would fit your budget and be versatile enough to carry you through any future cartridge upgrades you might want to pursue.

Whatever you look at in phono stages, make sure it has adjustments for loading and (ideally) for gain.

Fair warning - this rabbit hole goes deep! My entire setup is a cartridge upgrade that got out of hand! :biggrin:
 
sqlsavior said:
If you like your PH1, keep it and get a step-up transformer for your MC, instead of an active MC stage, is my advice. A dual-ratio 1:10 and 1:20 will handle all but the weakest oddball MC cartridges. The SUT will work with any MM stage, and removes loading fussiness from the mix. Then spend the remainder on the MC cartridge.

An MI alternative would be the London Decca Super Gold, if your tonearm is suitable. It beats my MC carts, to my ears, and needs no SUT.
Click to expand...

I bought a used PH1 as my first "re-entry" into the vinyl world. I have no experience with any other phonostage (other than mass market receivers from decades ago) so it was a matter of "it works" rather than "like".
 
When i was deciding on phono pre/step up ,i had a phenomena II a APT.Holman with Vince REV/MOD III modiffications and Luxman LE-109 phono pre. I replaced them with yamaha c-70 and yamaha c-80 preamp. They handle the LOMC carts great.
 
Frank Sol said:
:thumbsup:

Just one option: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/ned-claytons-blue-cinemag-3440ah-sut.989064/
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This is quite a rabbit hole, invest a $1000 or so into a SUT which can accommodate a wide variety of MCs or spend $1000 on a more serious MC phonostage? Plus spend half that money on (entry-level?) LOMC. I also have zero experience with MC cartridges other than reading that LOMCs are the way to go in the long-term.

Not to mention I have yet to select a turntable and tone arm....
 
I do not think there's a wrong direction to go

Many mighty fine sounding MM carts out there... Then there are the High MC carts you could try
 
oscarinovp said:
This is quite a rabbit hole, invest a $1000 or so into a SUT which can accommodate a wide variety of MCs or spend $1000 on a more serious MC phonostage? Plus spend half that money on (entry-level?) LOMC. I also have zero experience with MC cartridges other than reading that LOMCs are the way to go in the long-term.

Not to mention I have yet to select a turntable and tone arm....
Click to expand...
If you don't have a table as yet, why not think about how everything will work together. Arm mass, cart compliance etc should be looked at as a group. Not everything plays well together. Obviously your current Beogram 3400 is not an option for a new MC cart. due to the mounting.
I agree that a step up transformer would be the way to go instead of a new pre but getting a table/arm and cart combo will require a bit more work than asking for everyone's favourite. You'll get as many different suggestions as replies.
It's a fairly big cash outlay with the potential for remorse if you get a rig that doesn't feel like a good investment in a month. What's your budget for table, arm and cart?
 
kyle said:
If you don't have a table as yet, why not think about how everything will work together. Arm mass, cart compliance etc should be looked at as a group. Not everything plays well together. Obviously your current Beogram 3400 is not an option for a new MC cart. due to the mounting.
I agree that a step up transformer would be the way to go instead of a new pre but getting a table/arm and cart combo will require a bit more work than asking for everyone's favourite. You'll get as many different suggestions as replies.
It's a fairly big cash outlay with the potential for remorse if you get a rig that doesn't feel like a good investment in a month. What's your budget for table, arm and cart?
Click to expand...

The easy way out was a brand new turntable w/ high dollar MM cartridge ($3100 or so for total package) and save the MC "upgrade" (?) for a later time. Soon I hope to audition a souped up vintage table with SME 3009 tonearm for considerably less but I will have to purchase a cartridge.... hence the "temptation" for an immediate move to MC.

EDIT: Beogram 3400 has issues I don't want to deal with (e.g. tone arm won't lift properly after play, dodgy hinge, dodgy stylus, occasional huummmmmmm....)
 
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oscarinovp said:
This is quite a rabbit hole, invest a $1000 or so into a SUT which can accommodate a wide variety of MCs or spend $1000 on a more serious MC phonostage? Plus spend half that money on (entry-level?) LOMC. I also have zero experience with MC cartridges other than reading that LOMCs are the way to go in the long-term.

Not to mention I have yet to select a turntable and tone arm....
Click to expand...
One of the joys of hi-fi to me is actually hearing the distinct improvements (hopefully!) that each upgrade brings. By improvements, I mean new things you hear on familiar recordings, or sometimes a difference in presentation that reveals something going on musically that was obscured before. Like realizing that what you always thought were three bass notes are actually five notes! Stuff like that tickles me pink, and they are experiences that people who bring home an expensive system and never change it don't get to have.

I can also understand those who want to skip all the fussing and just play their recordings and have it sound good. But, a vinyl front end is probably the most complicated set of problems for designers to solve, and only rarely are top-notch solutions available from a single designer. That situation, plus affordability requirements, make the consumer effectively the system designer, with trial and error usually the most feasible approach.

I think being a tinkerer with ample time on your hands is less stressful than spending your budget all at once and hoping you make all the right decisions at that time. Of all the choices, I think the turntable is the most personal, and the hardest to change once made. Still, people change their turntables all the time! If you restrict your changes to only one at a time, you will maximize your knowledge gains, and minimize sideways moves.

Have fun on your journey! :music:
 
The SME 3009 is a good match for high compliance carts which means most MCs will not be optimal. It's also a very over priced arm these days. They were ideal when Shure V15s were popular.
You should base your table/arm/cartridge purchase on realistic parameters like how many records do you have and how often do you play them. If you have 100 albums, does it make sense to buy a VPI Vanquish table for 100K?
If you were getting a more modest table, like maybe a used Rega 3 you would have cash left to get a decent cart and step up transformer to use with your existing system and it wouldn't be a big mismatch.
It's your money though so if you need bigger equipment, go for it.
 
oscarinovp said:
This is quite a rabbit hole, invest a $1000 or so into a SUT which can accommodate a wide variety of MCs or spend $1000 on a more serious MC phonostage?
Click to expand...
My lowly Denon AU-300LC, an 1:10 SUT that sells on eBay for $200-350, beat the MC stage of my Luxman L-505u, the MC stage of my Sutherland Ph3D, and the MC stage of my Jolida JD-9, to my ears. You don't need to spend a grand on an SUT, and you won't need a new phono preamp! Moreover, if you want to get a vintage preamp w/o an MC stage, you're covered, and if it has one, the SUT will sound better! A 1:10 SUT will work with carts down to about 0.2 mv output.
oscarinovp said:
The easy way out was a brand new turntable...
Click to expand...
Does that mean you bought one?
 
I picked a vintage table this morning: heavily modified AR The turntable w/SME 3009 Series II unimproved tonearm and Shure M91 cartridge thrown in just to get started. I also lucked onto a dirt cheap Shure V15 Type IV cartridge at an estate sale yesterday. Coil tested good but stylus was trashed; I am seriously looking at Jico SAS replacement stylus in lieu of a newer (MM?) cartridge with the best possible stylus (e.g. $1200 Hana).

I have decided to live with MM in the near term and think about going to MC sometime later.
 
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