ScottFan355
Super Member
Hello all! Any thoughts on how much unclipped power one can use before worrying about frying tweeters? Obviously it depends on the speaker but assume a robust higher-end tower with mid to high 80s sensitivity.
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How Much Unclipped Power To Fry Tweeters?
- Thread starter ScottFan355
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Nightwisher
Farer In The Goldilocks Zone
There's no one answer to this question. Supplying more power than the speaker is rated to handle either at a continuous or dynamic level is probably the most general answer possible.
It's going to vary wildly based on speaker power handlings and tolerances. In other words, 427 is right.
ScottFan355
Super Member
Well sure, but lets say a speaker is rated for 20-150w. What continuous power, allowing for peaks, should it be able to be safely driven? 10w? 20? 50? Or more? And sorry, I guess I can be a bit of a smart ass too
ScottFan355
Super Member
And yes, I know it also depends on the kind of music so let's assume a highly dynamic passage.
Nightwisher
Farer In The Goldilocks Zone
The 150w in that rating could be a continuous or dynamic rating. Manufacturers often aren't clear.Well sure, but lets say a speaker is rated for 20-150w. What continuous power, allowing for peaks, should it be able to be safely driven? 10w? 20? 50? Or more? And sorry, I guess I can be a bit of a smart ass too
As far as the actual continuous wattage allowing for peaks to fall within the range, it does depend on the music and the recording. It would be a case by case basis. The only thing for certain is that the closer you get to the top of the rating range, the less comfortable you should feel playing something like the 1812 Overture.
That's not a speaker rating, a manufacturer might say the amp recommendation is 20 watts to 150 watts for their speakers. Now these recommendations are for selling new speakers, new speakers have a warranty. The manufacturer is not going to tell you their speakers will handle a max 400 watts, that might start getting to close to the failure of their product. The failure point and heavy distortion might be around 400 watts but their going to tell you to use a 150 watt amp. I have found 90% of the speakers I'v ever used can handle twice as much power as recommended and sound far better with a lot of power in reserve. As a general rule you will hear the distortion of speakers when they are getting to much power. <so that's how much they can take.
Now this is not ment for you but maybe someone else can get something out of it.
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restorer-john
Addicted Member
The power ratings numbers on speaker systems should be taken as guide only. Essentially they are pretty meaningless.
Most tweeters alone can be destroyed with a few watts of continuous power- that's a fact. A tweeter in a speaker system only 'sees' a tiny proportion of the total power being dissipated by the speaker system. Typical music has little energy at high frequencies.
High frequency test tones however, can destroy a tweeter in a split second with even a low powered amplifier. Toneburst testing was a very popular way for speaker manufacturers and reviewers to test the upper limits of what a speaker could handle without generally destroying it.
Most tweeters alone can be destroyed with a few watts of continuous power- that's a fact. A tweeter in a speaker system only 'sees' a tiny proportion of the total power being dissipated by the speaker system. Typical music has little energy at high frequencies.
High frequency test tones however, can destroy a tweeter in a split second with even a low powered amplifier. Toneburst testing was a very popular way for speaker manufacturers and reviewers to test the upper limits of what a speaker could handle without generally destroying it.
Splatter Pak
High-End Scrounger
Use such a powerful amp that your ears give out before it clips OR biamp. Yes, biamping permits the woofer amp to deal with the back-EMF from the woofers, and the mid/tweeter amp can sing without the clipping that back-EMF induces.
xero-D-hero
Super Member
This ^^^^ x2.
Most tweeters have their own stated max power rating independant of the speakers total power rating.
So one would need to know that spec upfront to even have the slightest chance of answering this question.
And then one would need to be able to figure out how the given crossover is affecting the distribution of power to the drivers in any given speaker.
So yeah largely an unaswerable question for most any manufactured speaker...
That is unless the given speaker(s) use a "spec" tweeter from a known driver maker.
Though one would also need to be pretty good at reverse engineering crossover design as well.
Now if it were a DIY speaker,then the builder SHOULD know what the tweeters given max power (wattage) rating is.
But even that is just a "rule of thumb" rating and not an etched in stone "go 1w more than >this< many watts & it'll blow" sorta rating.
And again the crossover comes into play as well (obviously).
Theory generally holds that when one is having issues blowing tweeters,it's not the unclipped power that's to blame.
FWIW
Bret P.
whoaru99
Epic Member
Frankly, it matters little about clipped or unclipped. It's power either way.
Here's an example that may help. This is "100 watt" tweeter per the 2nd line of the technical specs. However, that rating takes into account crossover/signal energy content/distribution. Think of it sorta like meaning "compatible with a 100W speaker system". If the signal fed to the tweeter deviates from that IEC profile, then the nominal rating could be higher if less low frequency energy is allowed to the tweeter or lower if more low frequency energy is allowed to the tweeter.
If you go down to line 7 of the technical specs you the tweeter itself can handle only 4 watts of actual power. So, this is ultimately the limiting factor to be considered in the integration of the tweeter into an overall design.
Here's an example that may help. This is "100 watt" tweeter per the 2nd line of the technical specs. However, that rating takes into account crossover/signal energy content/distribution. Think of it sorta like meaning "compatible with a 100W speaker system". If the signal fed to the tweeter deviates from that IEC profile, then the nominal rating could be higher if less low frequency energy is allowed to the tweeter or lower if more low frequency energy is allowed to the tweeter.
If you go down to line 7 of the technical specs you the tweeter itself can handle only 4 watts of actual power. So, this is ultimately the limiting factor to be considered in the integration of the tweeter into an overall design.
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I had a PSU fault in one of my active crossovers. The fault sent 100Hz at full power amp load into all the drivers on the left hand side of the system. The tweeter was 100watt IEC rated (based on 12dB/Octave passive crossover at 2.5KHz). Of course I have no passive crossovers.
Result:
The bass and midrange drivers survived, but the tweeter lasted about 5 seconds with 70watt power amps.
Does that answer the question?
Result:
The bass and midrange drivers survived, but the tweeter lasted about 5 seconds with 70watt power amps.
Does that answer the question?
woodj
Super Member
agree with @4-2-7 - impossible to answer (and IMHO without a lot more information)
say, your tweeter gets a >1Khz signal, somewhere in the high frequencies, it hits the
tweeter resonant frequency, and depending on amp output limiters (say through a
transformer) and/or the cross-over high frequency filter limitations, you could suck
enough power out that the tweeter melts the entire coil in about 1 millisecond
(that's more than 200 times faster than you can shift a German manual transmission).
i'd say, either buy a couple dozen tweeter and test them at various frequencies
for GRADUAL controlled, measured power increases and see where they blow.
then fuse your tweeter for that power level. or buy extra tweeter replacements
and forego the fuses.
in most systems, you pump 1000Wpc into quad 15" subwoofers, and really hope
nothing like that hits the tweeters.
and if you're my age and depending on the music, having perfectly working tweeters
Is a moot point - you won't hear anything over 10Khz.
say, your tweeter gets a >1Khz signal, somewhere in the high frequencies, it hits the
tweeter resonant frequency, and depending on amp output limiters (say through a
transformer) and/or the cross-over high frequency filter limitations, you could suck
enough power out that the tweeter melts the entire coil in about 1 millisecond
(that's more than 200 times faster than you can shift a German manual transmission).
i'd say, either buy a couple dozen tweeter and test them at various frequencies
for GRADUAL controlled, measured power increases and see where they blow.
then fuse your tweeter for that power level. or buy extra tweeter replacements
and forego the fuses.
in most systems, you pump 1000Wpc into quad 15" subwoofers, and really hope
nothing like that hits the tweeters.
and if you're my age and depending on the music, having perfectly working tweeters
Is a moot point - you won't hear anything over 10Khz.
woodj
Super Member
Probably has to do with misunderstanding of the way things actually work.
I LIKE MUSIC
Super Member
Because there is no collective we that shares all information automatically like one assimilated to the Borg collective.
Those that start in this hobby will have questions that have been previously answered and remember that all of use, me included, started with the same amount of knowledge related to this hobby and that is exactly zero.
62vauxhall
Addicted Member
No need to even bother with an amplifier to fry a tweeter. A charged car battery should do the trick.
