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How to choose floor speakers to go with a Pioneer amp?

G

Garald

New Member
My collection is almost entirely classical - largely on vinyl, plus a hundred CDs or so. I have a Pinoeer A-209R amp, a Pro-Ject Debut III turntable and an ONKYO CD player. Until now, I've been using JBL Control One bookshelf speakers, but I've just moved into a larger place with no immediate neighbors and a nice big main room (about 3.8m by 9.5m)... and one of the above-mentioned speakers seems to have just blown out. So I thought I'd get a new pair of speakers - floor speakers this time.

I went to a hi-fi shop today, and was told I needed to make an appointment to test some speakers. I was also told I needed to bring my amplifier, as they were unaware that Pioneer was still making speakers! Seems like this shop is (or is trying to be) a bit high end for me and for the rest of my equipment. They sell mostly a brand I wasn't aware of before (Focal). They said that their range started at 800eur or so... and that turned out to be the price for a single speaker. They also said I might be able to get a steep discount on equipment on display at the shop, though.

At any rate, while I'd like something I enjoy, there may be little sense in getting something that grossly overmatches my amplifier, whatever that may mean. What brands/price range for floor speakers should I be looking at given my existing equipment and music preferences (and non-infinite budget)?

(Amazon offers speakers with brands I haven't heard of either (Auna, Teufel, Fenton, Numan...) at tempting prices, but I'm not sure I want to buy sight unseen, or rather sound unheard.)
 
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Focal is a well known high quality brand. Are there any electronics stores in your area that sell speakers, that aren't specifically hifi stores? In the US, hifi stores are almost completely extinct, but you can still buy audio equipment at stores that also sell TVs and appliances. You'd probably be restricted to more common brands (that would depend on where you're located) but the prices will probably be lower.

Buying secondhand may also be an option, either from a private party or from a store that specializes in such things. Be sure you are able to fully audition the speakers before purchase.
 
As your apparently in Europe have you considered some nice used Jamo's? A Danish manufacturer not many here in the states know about that made outstanding speakers.

One example the Jamo 707
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The C-109
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If you had a nice fat wallet the Reference 909
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If I looked at the correct Pioneer of yours.
Seeing the Pioneer is rated at 35WPC then efficient speakers would be a smart buy. Or even a three piece outfit, two bookshelves on stands and a powered subwoofer.
 
I would normally recommend choosing speakers first and then enough amp to power them properly. In your case I'd be worried about having already "blown out" a JBL. Most speaker damage that I've seen comes from under-powering rather than overpowering. You may simply not have enough power to play loud with your quaint amplification. I have two pairs of JBL Pro-II Plus which are similar to your Control 1 but with a passive sub. I can play them with a 300-wpc Crown Studio Reference-II and they sound wonderful.

Tell us where you are, what and approximately how loud you listen to your music in your new home and you may get some good help. Welcome!
 
Oerets said:
If I looked at the correct Pioneer of yours.
Seeing the Pioneer is rated at 35WPC then efficient speakers would be a smart buy. Or even a three piece outfit, two bookshelves on stands and a powered subwoofer.
Click to expand...

Ya, didn't look at that, the Jamos like their power.
 
>Focal is a well known high quality brand. Are there any electronics stores in your area that sell speakers, that aren't specifically hifi stores? In >the US, hifi stores are almost completely extinct, but you can still buy audio equipment at stores that also sell TVs and appliances. You'd >probably be restricted to more common brands (that would depend on where you're located) but the prices will probably be lower.

Right - there are shops like Fnac and Darty, which sell all sorts of electronic equipment. I just checked - Fnac seems to have Focal speakers at a very reasonable price:
On the other hand, I can't imagine that one could possibly test a speaker in a Fnac.

>As your apparently in Europe have you considered some nice used Jamo's? A Danish manufacturer not many here in the states know about >that made outstanding speakers.

I've heard of Jamo. Again, available at a discount at Fnac: https://www.fnac.com/Enceintes-colonne-Jamo-S27F-Bleu-Vendues-par-paire/a17503542/w-4#omnsearchpos=8 Of course, I have no idea of how that model compares to the ones you mention.

>Seeing the Pioneer is rated at 35WPC then efficient speakers would be a smart buy.

You mean speakers that produce a lot of dB per W? I am not actually trying to become deaf - I am just glad I no longer live right above my landlady! (In fact, I no longer have a landlord - finally!)

>I would normally recommend choosing speakers first and then enough amp to power them properly. In your case I'd be worried about having >"blown out" a JBL.

I'm not sure it's technically "blown out" - it just sounds damaged, with unwanted resonances in a certain range of frequencies. It served me well for 13 years. Maybe it fell during the move or what have you.

> Most speaker damage that I've seen comes from under-powering rather than overpowering.

How does one damage a speaker by feeding it too little power?

>Tell us where you are an how loud you listen to your music in your new home and you may get some good help. Welcome!

I'm listening to some jazz right now at what I think is a moderately loud but pleasant volume. (Correction: I'm getting a bit tired - I think I'll lower it.) I've just measured the sound right off the speakers using my phone - it's around 80dB, peaking at 87dB. Of course where I'm sitting now it's more in the 70-75dB range, with only ff passages around 80dB. I wouldn't listening to anything much louder for any length of time.
 
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Bill S said:
Why floorstanders? Triangle Borea BR3 are excellent.
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Purely practical reasons: the shelf where I had been minded to put the speakers shakes too much, and my girlfriend hates the sight of hanging audio cables, in all their pinkness.

Bill S said:
Crisp highs, 90db efficiency and bass to 44hz at -3. hey make floor standers as well. French company.
Click to expand...

Yup, can get Borea for a good price. Would these be good for the amplifier I've got?


(I'm finding that it is recommended for smaller rooms (10 to 25m^2) - not sure why.)

On the amp: other than its being apparently somewhat underpowered, is there any other reason to say good-bye to it?
 
Garald said:
Purely practical reasons: the shelf where I had been minded to put the speakers shakes too much, and my girlfriend hates the sight of hanging audio cables, in all their pinkness.



Yup, can get Borea for a good price. Would these be good for the amplifier I've got?


(I'm finding that it is recommended for smaller rooms (10 to 25m^2) - not sure why.)

On the amp: other than its being apparently somewhat underpowered, is there any other reason to say good-bye to it?
Click to expand...
The Triangles Borea BR3 bookshelves have similar specs and either would sound great with your current amp. Something like the Monoprice stands allow you to run the speaker wires up into the stands so they don't have to sit on a shelf. Either way, the Triangles have excellent reviews and you'll enjoy them.
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Garald said:
>Focal is a well known high quality brand. Are there any electronics stores in your area that sell speakers, that aren't specifically hifi stores? In >the US, hifi stores are almost completely extinct, but you can still buy audio equipment at stores that also sell TVs and appliances. You'd >probably be restricted to more common brands (that would depend on where you're located) but the prices will probably be lower.

Right - there are shops like Fnac and Darty, which sell all sorts of electronic equipment. I just checked - Fnac seems to have Focal speakers at a very reasonable price:
On the other hand, I can't imagine that one could possibly test a speaker in a Fnac.

>As your apparently in Europe have you considered some nice used Jamo's? A Danish manufacturer not many here in the states know about >that made outstanding speakers.

I've heard of Jamo. Again, available at a discount at Fnac: https://www.fnac.com/Enceintes-colonne-Jamo-S27F-Bleu-Vendues-par-paire/a17503542/w-4#omnsearchpos=8 Of course, I have no idea of how that model compares to the ones you mention.

>Seeing the Pioneer is rated at 35WPC then efficient speakers would be a smart buy.

You mean speakers that produce a lot of dB per W? I am not actually trying to become deaf - I am just glad I no longer live right above my landlady! (In fact, I no longer have a landlord - finally!)

>I would normally recommend choosing speakers first and then enough amp to power them properly. In your case I'd be worried about having >"blown out" a JBL.

I'm not sure it's technically "blown out" - it just sounds damaged, with unwanted resonances in a certain range of frequencies. It served me well for 13 years. Maybe it fell during the move or what have you.

> Most speaker damage that I've seen comes from under-powering rather than overpowering.

How does one damage a speaker by feeding it too little power?

>Tell us where you are an how loud you listen to your music in your new home and you may get some good help. Welcome!

I'm listening to some jazz right now at what I think is a moderately loud but pleasant volume. (Correction: I'm getting a bit tired - I think I'll lower it.) I've just measured the sound right off the speakers using my phone - it's around 80dB, peaking at 87dB. Of course where I'm sitting now it's more in the 70-75dB range, with only ff passages around 80dB. I wouldn't listening to anything much louder for any length of time.
Click to expand...

It's not all about the volume but control of the drivers, some just require the amp have some balls.
 
Only heard Triangles once -- at least 10 years ago in France -- but I was very impressed with them. Couldn't believe I had never heard of the brand. They haven't been popular (or at least hit my radar) in the US, but they seem like a very solid brand choice.
 
Garald said:
How does one damage a speaker by feeding it too little power?

>Tell us where you are an how loud you listen to your music in your new home and you may get some good help. Welcome!

I'm listening to some jazz right now at what I think is a moderately loud but pleasant volume. (Correction: I'm getting a bit tired - I think I'll lower it.) I've just measured the sound right off the speakers using my phone - it's around 80dB, peaking at 87dB. Of course where I'm sitting now it's more in the 70-75dB range, with only ff passages around 80dB. I wouldn't listening to anything much louder for any length of time.
Click to expand...
Damage to speakers, especially to tweeters, comes from over-driving them with an amp that goes into clipping and sends distorted signal to the speaker. That's what can burn out a driver/speaker/tweeter. From your description of your listening habits, that may not be the problem but you may want to investigate what happened to the Control-1 anyway since amps have been known to produce HF oscillations which can fry tweeters.

I happened to have just purchased a pair of those Monoprice stands off local Craig's List for cheap, so I've seen the specs which specify a maximum weight of only 25-pounds. They will work for my Pro-III Plus but that's not enough for even some of my smaller JBLs like the S38. Even my little L20T barely make it at 20-pounds each. If the stands work for you, that may also limit your speaker selection.
:dunno:
 
All right. So, the general recommendation is that, if I'm keeping my current amplifier for the while being, I should go for Borea rather than Jamo or Focal, since they are higher efficiency?

>Isn't your room 3.8m x 9.5m?

Yes, so I wonder why the B07 is recommended for smaller rooms - just not enough volume? Or is the point that, since the room is long, it is more sensible to get the BR07?

>From your description of your listening habits, that may not be the problem but you may want to investigate what happened to the Control-1 anyway since amps have been known to produce HF oscillations which can fry tweeters.

Not sure how to go about being my own audio Hercule Poirot. As I said, there was a move and then I put the speakers on a shelf that vibrated too much.

Another question. Since the amplifier is more than a decade old, it should not be surprising that it has no Wifi/Bluetooth capabilities. Now, I would like to have wireless speakers in the attic, or have the option of putting speakers on the other end of the long room without running cabling up to there. I have heard it is possible to add a bluetooth adapter to an amplifier - is this so? Or should I just get a new amplifier?
 
As your music tastes are largely classical and you amp is 'of a low powered bygone age' as it were, i would suggest trying to find a decent pair of Celestion Dittons or similar largish stand mount loudspeakers from the late 1980s. These are very undemanding to drive and have a very relaxed sound.
 
I am really bemused by how old-fashioned my amp turns out to be. It's not some sort of family heirloom to which I have some sort of sentimental attachment. It's just an amp I got new in 2010, to replace an old amp (Technics I believe) that I had got used and had accumulated more dust than an ancient Egyptian temple. In 2010, the Pioneer A-209R was thought of as an amp that had an excellent quality/price ratio (or that is what I think I understood from reviews - a quick Google search for reviews around that time gives the same picture). I had no idea that it was obsolescent (or that things had moved so fast that what was not obsolescent then is obsolete now). Is its being relatively low-powered the only thing wrong with it?

The Celestion Dittons look very interesting - but, since everybody seems to think that the Triangle Boreas are excellent, and that their BR07 model won't necessarily overtax my current amp, I suppose I will get them (Fnac sells them for 300eur each - that is good, right?), and also get a wireless adapter so that the amplifier can also send a signal to any wireless speakers I might get for the attic (or would that be elder abuse?). Does that sound sensible? Or should I grow up and get rid of what I thought was a completely reasonable amplifier?

PS. I can get Celestion Ditton on Ebay for a reasonable price, but I am reluctant to buy used speakers without testing them first.
 
Garald said:
I am really bemused by how old-fashioned my amp turns out to be. It's not some sort of family heirloom to which I have some sort of sentimental attachment. It's just an amp I got new in 2010, to replace an old amp (Technics I believe) that I had got used and had accumulated more dust than an ancient Egyptian temple. In 2010, the Pioneer A-209R was thought of as an amp that had an excellent quality/price ratio (or that is what I think I understood from reviews - a quick Google search for reviews around that time gives the same picture). I had no idea that it was obsolescent (or that things had moved so fast that what was not obsolescent then is obsolete now). Is its being relatively low-powered the only thing wrong with it?

The Celestion Dittons look very interesting - but, since everybody seems to think that the Triangle Boreas are excellent, and that their BR07 model won't necessarily overtax my current amp, I suppose I will get them (Fnac sells them for 300eur each - that is good, right?), and also get a wireless adapter so that the amplifier can also send a signal to any wireless speakers I might get for the attic (or would that be elder abuse?). Does that sound sensible? Or should I grow up and get rid of what I thought was a completely reasonable amplifier?

PS. I can get Celestion Ditton on Ebay for a reasonable price, but I am reluctant to buy used speakers without testing them first.
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The age of your amplification doesn't bother me as much as how appropriate to the use intended it is. The newest amplifier in my system was likely made in the '90s and one pre-amp dates from 1961.

No one can tell you what speaker will work best for you. As a relative "newbie" if you are able to buy them new locally with a 30-day return policy, that's your best bet. The only speakers I've ever bought new (and, remember, I'm in the USA) were the over-hyped Andrew Jones Pioneers (but for $50 delivered, that wasn't much of a gamble) and a pair of JBL powered monitor 3's for $199 which worked out so well I bought another pair that are still in the box. I do have over a dozen other pairs of speakers purchased used just to try out or because the deal was too good to pass on (DCM TF600). Some have been in my home for over 65-years and one was purchased new over 40-years ago and aren't going anywhere. Some are better than others but then there haven't been many I regretted—which is why I have so many today!

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> The age of your amplification doesn't bother me as much as how appropriate to the use intended it is.

Sure, but how appropriate is it? When I got it, I just made sure it had phono (since my turntable doesn't have a pre-amp).
 
There are probably many speakers that would satisfy your needs. I mentioned Triangle because they are headquarterd in France, they sound very nice and they should offer a 30 day trial as they do here. They are also fairly efficient and will work well with an amp of your size.
 
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