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how to get started in tubes?

ferninando

ferninando

Lunatic Member
Buy vintage fisher/scott/lafayette/dynaco/etc? get something new,dynakit? Need a tube tester? I see lotta choices available in all areas. Seems a good tube tester is a must for vintage stuff. Am looking at a mint RCA w/all mnls.
Just knocking around the idea. Looking at possibilities.
thanks.

PS: built a superhet radio in US Navy Electronics school so am flamilar with hot emitter devices. Just never went tubes for audio.
 
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oldhifiguy said:
Buy vintage fisher/scott/lafayette/dynaco/etc? get something new,dynakit? Need a tube tester? I see lotta choices available in all areas. Seems a good tube tester is a must for vintage stuff. Am looking at a mint RCA w/all mnls.
Just knocking around the idea. Looking at possibilities.
thanks.

PS: built a superhet radio in US Navy Electronics school so am flamilar with hot emitter devices. Just never went tubes for audio.
Click to expand...

You don't need a tube tester to start out. In fact, I would not recommend doing anything other than getting some sort of tube amp to try out first. Maybe you can borrow one from a close by AK member?
 
Great question and thread.

Sorry i don't have much to offer beside my first hand observation that i'm getting mighty discouraged sitting here staring at a small fortune in SILENT 6550 amplifiers and assorted 6550, 5R4, 6SN7, and OD3 tubes for them.

I now face the reality of "who am i going to get to work on these?" and "How am i ever going to be able to afford it?"

Kudos to you Oldhifiguy, for having the sense to ask this very important question before finding yourself in my current situation.
 
oldhifiguy said:
Buy vintage fisher/scott/lafayette/dynaco/etc? get something new,dynakit? Need a tube tester? I see lotta choices available in all areas. Seems a good tube tester is a must for vintage stuff. Am looking at a mint RCA w/all mnls.
Just knocking around the idea. Looking at possibilities.
thanks.

PS: built a superhet radio in US Navy Electronics school so am flamilar with hot emitter devices. Just never went tubes for audio.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't bother with a tube tester, you can still bring them over to Radio Shack, can't you?

I'd start with the tube amp myself.

bs
 
I wouldn't bother with a tube tester, you can still bring them over to Radio Shack, can't you?
Click to expand...
:-)

Y'know... I think the best place for a complete tyro to start would be a decent, inexpensive new production amplifier (e.g., JoLida).
For the OP, who should know about high voltage, a kit would be a cost-effective and fun place to start. Depending upon the availability of efficient speakers, maybe the new Dynakit ST-35 www.dynakitparts.com
Or one of Doc Bottlehead's amps (the "SEX" is the cheapest, but will require very efficient speakers): www.bottlehead.com

On the cheap, there are always the kits from S5 Electronics www.s5electronics.com
 
FWIW, I'd get something like a Fisher 400/500 receiver or a Scott 299 integrated that's been worked on a bit or at least is turnkey ready to go. They are well respected pieces that can give you a fine taste of tubes and are highly sought after so you will have no trouble selling it if they don't fit your taste or you want to upgrade in the future.

Good Luck!!
 
Well, all good advice so far. With 1 exception. Radio shack to test tubes???
The yokels in there would wonder what planet I came in from. What's a tube? Oh, you mean 'youtube'? I haven't ever seen a tube tester in a radio shack that I recall. Now I may be wrong and they have it hidden in the back. I'll ask next time.
Please keep the thoughts comming.
 
I think that was a little ironic humor. Heck, when I was a lad, they had tube testers in drugstores. They only tested emission though, so they were next to useless.

A good, calibrated tube tester (i.e., one that will test transconductance and permit tube matching) wasn't then, and won't now be, inexpensive.
 
bowtie427ss said:
Great question and thread.

Sorry i don't have much to offer beside my first hand observation that i'm getting mighty discouraged sitting here staring at a small fortune in SILENT 6550 amplifiers and assorted 6550, 5R4, 6SN7, and OD3 tubes for them.

I now face the reality of "who am i going to get to work on these?" and "How am i ever going to be able to afford it?"

Kudos to you Oldhifiguy, for having the sense to ask this very important question before finding yourself in my current situation.
Click to expand...

hey-Hey!!!,
yer kiddin' aren't you? with a BIY next to your moniker, riiiight?
cheers,
Douglas
 
i like andyman's idea.
in order to experience full tube sound, receiver or integrated amp is the way to go. otherwise, you'd have to buy power amp and separate preamp. using either with ss will not give you a full idea of how tubes can sound. i always though tubed power amp didn't really effect the end sound much, but i was very wrong after trying Eico power amp.

down side i guess will be that the receivers have lots more to work on or that can go wrong under the chassis while power amp or preamp usually have very simple circuit design that anyone can work on. i personally started with fisher receivers - 500 series - and loved it.

i dont' know what your budget might be, but i think you should look into buying fisher, scott, or pilot integrated or receiver that's not too expensive off of craigslist or ebay. make sure that the seller knows what he's selling and that all tubes and functions are good.
 
By my screen name I can assure you I too was around with tube testers on every corner, like starbucks today. The RCA is a mint tube tester under 200 for auction.. Theres also 2 scott's , a 222 and a 229 integs and I know not what the diff is, prolly power out, and a nice lafayette, a 224 or something.
All Integrateds. I wouldn't get a rcvr, have purged my SS collection of rcvrs and gone to a Sansui au517 65 watt integ drivint a pair of B&W DM602s which sound sweet to my ears, and I'v had the best, JBL Olympus S8R systems for 35 yrs.
The jolidas are abit on the $$$ side for starters, as are the dynakits, but they have a certain appeaal, but then I'd need preamp/tonecontrols and you gotta buy the tubes extra , so the $$$ goes up there too.
Best suggestion so far is to go with an old fisher/scott or something integrated that works, just to get a sense of the tube experience. And I know of their products from back when they were made. Too bad they bellied up.
Anyway keep it comming while I continue to cogetate on the matter.
 
I'll toss in my two rubles...

A power amplifier is certainly the simplest circuit to cut your teeth on, but it requires a preamp. So, by trying for a simple first step you start to get more complicated.

My suggestion would be to start with a relatively inexpensive tube receiver that works.

If you want a combination of low cost, high availability, readily available parts, and a large amount of knowledge/help, I would suggest a Fisher 400.

There's about eleventy-three for sale on eBay every day, they're more common than the 500C, usually a bit less expensive, and a smidgeon less complex under the covers. Now that new 7868's are available, you're not stuck with sometimes expensive original tubes.

Average working condition, average cosmetics, figure $250 give or take, depending on phases of the moon, who's bidding, how much they've been drinking, etc., etc..

You can have a lot of fun doing some simple and inexpensive refurb/upgrades, you can do some tube rolling, and they've got enough output power for anything other than pretty inefficient speakers.

Oh, and they sound fabulous.
 
Hi, I am starting with a Fisher 400 it has a cool tube tunning eye. Currently restoring it. There is a ton of info out there on them and they are a great sounding reciever and you can get them fairly reasonable. Many people have tons info on vintage Fisher, Scott, Shurwood, or even Sansui (lot of help on Sansui 1000a here on AK) never looked into RCA but it may be out there. I think the Dynakit Dyanaco stuff is good too as there is a lot out there on them too I just was not that commited cost wise and I wanted a receiver to start with. I took the approach on looking where the information is and where I can get it from, stayed with something common. Try to stay away from the obscure unique or super high dollar stuff if you are one that wants to learn and tinker with it. I only say this if you make a mistake may take something out that is $$ or very hard to find. There are also good book I have been reading by Morgan Jones "Valve Amplifiers" which is pretty good. IMHO
have fun looking
Jim
 
First to preface, some of my views on the day-to-day use of tube audio gear have been tempered by the sage advice and experience of fellow AKer EddyR -- who has forgotten more about tube audio than most of us will know.

Don't forget Sherwood or Stromberg-Carlson for entry-level tube integrated amps. I'd stay away from a tube receiver -- the receiver sections are not up to even some of the cheapest used modern BP stuff (see: Sansui TU-D99X) tuners, and just another electronic section to fail/maintain.

You'll want efficient speakers with tube amplification. It can get costly when/if you want to get up in the over 35 tube-wpc range. I guess your JBL Olympus pair would do <G>.

I harbor tube equipment lust every so often (about quarterly), having grown up in their era and helped my dad test them and replace them in our TVs and his Pioneer SM-B200A -- I want one! -- and Grundig console (which I have yet to pry out of my brother's hands)...

This periodic lust results in a flurry of eBay and Audiogon searching on tube integrated amps (or mono amps) and the resulting go / no-go internal conversations I have on justifying it/them.

I periodically satisfy this irrational tube urge with my modest Grommes 502M receiver (12--15 wpc). But I end up retiring it after a few weeks and go back to my SS Sony 6060F receiver driving JBL L-200.

The Sony gets about as close to "tube" sound as I have heard from SS, costs about 1/2 the entry-dollar point, and has a great phono section. (It parks my Marantz 2270.) Although the Sony doesn't glow as nicely in the dark (without a cage on it), nor does it serve as a substitute room warmer, but I can leave it on 24/7 and leave the room without worry about finding a smoldering pile when I return.

I think every audio enthusiast should have at least one piece of tube gear -- just to get a glimpse at what all the fuss is about.
 
I'm going to echo other's sentiments WRT a tube tester - you don't need one. Maybe if you get into tubes and have several pieces of gear, etc.

Before making any recommendation about what tube amp/integrated/receiver you should get, I have a few questions:

1. Do you have/know what speakers you are intending to use? Tube amps can vary from less than 2 wpc to 100+wpc (although pretty expensive at that end of the pool). Many modern speakers like 100 wpc or more. You'll be wasting your time and money if you mate an acoustic suspension speaker that wants a minimum of 75 wpc with a 10wpc tube amp. It will work but you'll never get a high quality sound.

2. Do you already have some gear that you might want to use with whatever you buy? If you have a good solid state amp and low efficiency speakers, maybe you'd like to try a tube preamp first? Or maybe you have a great separate solid state preamp and want to marry an amp appropriate to your speakers? Or maybe you want both tube preamp and amp and should go integrated? Or you would like to have a tube tuner and maybe want a tube receiver?

3. How much money do you want to throw at it?
 
Perhaps the best aspect of tube amps is that you can have a great sounding amp on the cheap, like $100 or less. It probably won't be too pretty or powerful, but smaller amps tend to reveal detail at least as well as big buck powerful amps.

Start slowly. Give yourself time to evaluate the sounds you are hearing.

Experiment rolling tubes...that is, putting different brands for the different tube types in your amp. The driver tubes (the smaller ones) seem to make the most difference.

There really is a difference in tube amplified sound as opposed to solid state.
 
1st of all my JBLs are gone. I'm running B&W DM602s bookshelfs. Tweeter and 6.5" mid/base. Efficiency ???? Driving them with sansui AU517 65 watt integrted run at 10 oklok is more then loud enough. I'm sure a 15-20 watt tube amp could handle them.
I'm a retired 30 yr HP tech. I'll spend up to 200 for a good working integ tube amp, scott, fisher, or whatever if one comes around and I see them now today on ebay so they are out there. I don't want a rcvr. No FM here to listen to, all foreign ethnic and rapp.
Wether I get a tuber or not depends on what I eventually want to do. For now it's something to look into and think about. I'll be watching ebay and CL[not much there] for just the right piece at the right price+shipping.
Keep your comments coming. I'll take all the info I can get.
 
For starting out I think it's best to buy a used amp with built in preamp. There's lots of good finds on Craigslist or Ebay and I would stick to the popular brands like Eico, Dynaco, Heathkit and Fisher since they have tons of info on them and after market parts and upgrades available.
 
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