"How to Set Up and Treat a Listening Room" (and other videos)

[DC]

Though I do not agree with Ethan Winer on everything, I don't think it can be denied that he is an expert on acoustic room treatments and his company seems to produce some of the best products available. (Except for his book, I do not own any of his products and I am not affiliated with him or his company.)

Here are some videos I found surfing YouTube this evening on my iPad from the comfort of my back patio while enjoying an evening cigar:

1. "Hearing is Believing" is possibly the best of these videos. Doug Ferrara, Mr. Winer's business partner, explains and gives a very compelling demonstration of the effects of a typical untreated room, then treated with bass traps only, and then treated with bass traps and other absorption and diffusion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB8H0HFMylo To hear the differences in the diffusion examples, you may need at least your computer speakers. (My iPad speaker was not enough, though it was fine for the first comparisons.)

2. "How to Set Up and Treat a Listening Room" is a basic explanation of his products and how he has treated his own living room and is able to get excellent sonic results from admittedly modest components. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbLVjHfHahg I have to admit, his is not a particularly ideal space and is likely similar to the "compromise" spaces many of us have for our music pleasure, yet he says he is able to make it close to ideal.

3. "The Ultimate Home Studio" describes exactly that. While is may not be an entirely "apples to apples" comparison to a hi-fi oriented listening room, I think a lot can be applied to our listening rooms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSX14geMw-c

I also think it is interesting that I gained a better understanding of how to read and understand 3-D graphical analysis plots from Mr. Winer's second video than I've ever learned from the books or magazines.

Lastly, this video from "Home Music Production" (.com) shows, step by step, how to build simple (and probably very effective) sound panels using basic hardware store materials: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8C4mcleE5U A frugal DIY-type can probably do it a cheaper, too.

My own listening room has a lot of treatments, but not necessarily quality treatments. I think I need to pay more attention to this stuff and perhaps make some improvements, too.

 

[human1138]

Thanks for posting the links, room treatment isn't something I've tried yet but probably need to.

 

[tomlinmgt]

I recently painted my listening space and removed all the treatments I'd put up which include:

- 2'x4' 2" thick OC703 absorption panels at side wall and ceiling first reflection
- 2'x4' 4" thick OC703 absorption panels on front wall (behind speakers)
- 2.5' x 4.5" scatter panels behind speakers (dipoles)
- 2'x2' 4" thick OC703 absorption panel centered on front wall between speakers
- OC 703 "superchunk" style broadband corner absorbers in front wall corners
- 3" Roxul SafeNSound "tray" abosorbers (I'll share this nifty little idea soon) in a vertical array at the rear wall corners
- poly cylindrical diffusers at front wall corners and on back wall behind listening spot

Of course, before I put all the treatments back up I gave the rig a listen just to hear the difference. :jawdrop:

I don't think I can stress enough how utterly shitty my rig sounded. Mid range was muddy and barely coherent, upper bass was sloppy and mashed together, imaging was foggy as hell, high end was shrill and piercing, there was no sound stage to speak of, LF response was one note hell and full of gaps. I was a believer in acoustic treatments before I did that little experiment, but I really had no idea just how much improvement the treatments had made as I largely did them in stages. It's amazing how much fidelity poor acoustics can rob from your rig. If you've not given attention to this stuff and your room has a poor acoustic response (chances are pretty good it's worse than you think) I'm certain you'd be shocked upon discovering how much you've been missing out on. I've made improving room acoustics my number one priority in the hobby over pretty much everything else. After I put up my initial treatments and heard the difference in sound quality from the same equipment I realized it would be utterly senseless for me to move up to more and more expensive gear without first focusing on making the room right. Case in point....I've had Infinity IRS Betas since February and I still haven't set them up as I've been systematically getting the listening space's treatment scenario right for the speakers.

 

[totem]

.I've had Infinity IRS Betas since February and I still haven't set them up as I've been systematically getting the listening space's treatment scenario right for the speakers.

Waiting for the reveal!

 

[slippers-on]

DC thanks for this thread. Can yourself and Tomlinmgt post pictures of your listening space?

 

[tomlinmgt]

Feel free to poke around in my albums...

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/album.php?u=85951

Any pics with the Threshold amp(s) out on the floor are going to be the most recent, but no new pics have been added to the albums since I've done a complete makeover of the space (including lots of new and relocated treatments). I'll soon post a thread describing the room in detail including all the changes and measurements I've taken along the way. Lots of neat stuff going on right now as I almost have it ready for the Betas. :yes: I'm elbows deep in QRD diffuser construction right now and that's just about the last thing I have to do....besides add some more token absorption at the wall to ceiling intersections.

 

[totem]

Micheal

almost have it ready for the Betas. I'm elbows deep in QRD diffuser construction right now and that's just about the last thing I have to do

A thought regarding room treatment and how specific it is to a particular speaker design.

Example, if one were to start with say your Beta,s install diffusion and
absorption then swap them for say something along the lines of the 19,s
of which I know you are familiar with.

Will you end up with treatment tailored
to a dipole and not in this example the Altecs?

Many here do have more than one design of speaker including myself, horn loaded 3 ways which like corner boundary placement.

Perhaps a well treated room is just that, applicable to all?

 

[I.R.Brainiac]

I recently painted my listening space and removed all the treatments I'd put up which include:

- 2'x4' 2" thick OC703 absorption panels at side wall and ceiling first reflection
- 2'x4' 4" thick OC703 absorption panels on front wall (behind speakers)
- 2.5' x 4.5" scatter panels behind speakers (dipoles)
- 2'x2' 4" thick OC703 absorption panel centered on front wall between speakers
- OC 703 "superchunk" style broadband corner absorbers in front wall corners
- 3" Roxul SafeNSound "tray" abosorbers (I'll share this nifty little idea soon) in a vertical array at the rear wall corners
- poly cylindrical diffusers at front wall corners and on back wall behind listening spot

Of course, before I put all the treatments back up I gave the rig a listen just to hear the difference. :jawdrop:

I don't think I can stress enough how utterly shitty my rig sounded. Mid range was muddy and barely coherent, upper bass was sloppy and mashed together, imaging was foggy as hell, high end was shrill and piercing, there was no sound stage to speak of, LF response was one note hell and full of gaps. I was a believer in acoustic treatments before I did that little experiment, but I really had no idea just how much improvement the treatments had made as I largely did them in stages. It's amazing how much fidelity poor acoustics can rob from your rig. If you've not given attention to this stuff and your room has a poor acoustic response (chances are pretty good it's worse than you think) I'm certain you'd be shocked upon discovering how much you've been missing out on. I've made improving room acoustics my number one priority in the hobby over pretty much everything else. After I put up my initial treatments and heard the difference in sound quality from the same equipment I realized it would be utterly senseless for me to move up to more and more expensive gear without first focusing on making the room right. Case in point....I've had Infinity IRS Betas since February and I still haven't set them up as I've been systematically getting the listening space's treatment scenario right for the speakers.

So very telling wasnt it?It would be so cool if there was a switch you could throw to A/B the difference.
I am getting ready to start setting up a HT/music room from scratch.I will first measure the untreated room and save the results to give myself a graph to compare too afterwards.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Micheal


A thought regarding room treatment and how specific it is to a particular speaker design.

Example, if one were to start with say your Beta,s install diffusion and
absorption then swap them for say something along the lines of the 19,s
of which I know you are familiar with.

Will you end up with treatment tailored
to a dipole and not in this example the Altecs?

Many here do have more than one design of speaker including myself, horn loaded 3 ways which like corner boundary placement.

Perhaps a well treated room is just that, applicable to all?

First things first...I am NOT an authority on acoustics. I'm fascinated by it, enthusiastic about it, have experimented with it, and have done my fair share of research into the topic. I think it's shamefully neglected by most in the hobby and am pretty outspoken about that. However, I have no formal training or education in the science so take (most of) what I say with a grain of salt....but ask RevMen if you want someone with some real credentials.

My (limited) research into the science of acoustics has led me to determine the basic concepts are not so difficult to comprehend, but advanced acoustic theory is quite complex. Absorption is, by and large, a fundamental acoustic concept. Diffusion, or should I say the proper execution of it in a two-channel listening or recording environment, is a much more complex science. The deeper I get into studying diffusion the more my brain starts to melt. That having been said, I believe a treatment scenario for the listening space should be tailored to the radiation pattern of the speakers and the degree to which one intends to treat the space. Can there be a "one size fits all" treatment scenario? I'm doubtful, but I don't think it's very difficult to have a room with a treatment scenario that is modular so it can be altered to optimize the response of different loudspeaker designs. Like many have said before, a mix of absorption and diffusion is ideal, but the placement of said types of treatment will be largely dictated by loudspeaker type and the listening position's proximity to boundary layers.

Any loudspeaker design dispersing a significant amount of content to the walls, floors and ceiling will need treatments on those boundary layers (so long as those surfaces are hard/reflective and parallel). Whether the type of treatment is diffuse or absorptive depends on a number of factors which must first be considered. My research and experience indicates that just about all designs benefit from absorption at early reflection points. I find that monopole designs typically have the largest amount of boundary layer interaction because of their broad dispersion patterns and benefit the most from absorption at all early reflection points (side walls, rear wall, and ceiling). Line sources typically don't disperse much content in the vertical plane so ceiling and floor boundary layer interaction is reduced and not as critical to address. A dipole design's "cardiod" radiation pattern in the horizontal plane makes them less subject to boundary layer interaction with side walls, so though it's still advisable to have side wall early reflection absorption with these designs it's not quite as critical. One exception to this is if the speaker is positioned within close proximity to the side wall....say two feet or less. Then the benefit of side wall early reflection absorption becomes more apparent.

Absorption on the front wall (behind the speakers) is beneficial as well but not for the same reasons as first reflection absorption...which is to eliminate the earliest reflections of upper bass, mid range and high frequency content. Absorption on the front wall behind the speakers helps to tame reflections returning from the back wall and to absorb spectral content in the lower regions (mid bass) and for this reason needs to be a fairly thick layer of compressed fiberglass or rockwool. Of course, the exception here is the dipole. Since it gets much of its sonic signature from rear wave propagation it would not be desirable to have absorption on the front wall directly behind a dipole. This is an instance where diffusion or scattering would be the best choice. A flat, untreated, reflective wall is better than an absorptive surface, but properly diffusing the rear wave information is much more desirable as it creates a more accurate sound stage presentation in terms of dimensionality, scale, and ambiance.

I think rear wall treatment should be a consideration for all designs since practically every design disperses it's primary wave toward that wall. This is especially critical if the listener sits within close proximity to the rear wall. Diffusion is generally preferred here, but absorption can work also. Diffusion will have the benefit of returning the energy back into the listening environment which can give a sense of spaciousness. Absorption simply removes the energy from the room and though this will improve clarity and imaging, it can rob the presentation of scale and ambiance.

Through my research I'm starting to get the impression you only want enough absorption in place to tame early reflections and LF peaks and nulls. Once you have those under control diffusion will rule the day. And I'm talking proper diffusion...not book shelves, not decor with irregular surfaces, not house plants and plastic trees....all that stuff can scatter but are NOT diffuse in the acoustic sense of the word. Proper diffusion is all about returning spectral energy into the room in an equal, controlled, directional fashion. This can only be accomplished with mathematically designed diffusion devices.

Sorry, there I go again telling someone how to build a watch when all they wanted was the time. Hope that answers your question, totem.

- Michael

 

[totem]

That pretty much addresses the overall picture regarding room treatment integration and speaker design.

Note, I will take the watch design option every time.

Now to focus on putting together some diffusion panels, wonder where that
idea came from.:thmbsp:

 

[EWizard]

I don't know how big that listening area is but it looks huuuge.
Oh my, some great gear in there!