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HPM 60 Crossover

Trying all those xovers should be very imformative and I for one will be really looking
forward to your impressions.

Personally I feel the one you posted first (1.5 coil on woof) should give the drivers better
xover points for there strengths and sound the cleanest.

I think that the differences you will find between all these xovers is the xover points
themselves will be quite different, also you may find on some that multiple drivers will
be running at the same frequency which will more then likely give you more volume
for a given amount of power but at the sacrifice of not being as clean of a sound.

Also the one with the 1.5mh coil will take some of the upper frequencies out of the
woofer which should be an improvement and keep the lower midrange frequencies
from being produced from a woofer that is to large to produce them "correctly" but
also will keep them out of the port because the woofer will not produce them.

Just a few things to try and listen for when you evaluate these. Not that you want to
but I would be very greatful if you took some killer notes when you listen to all of these
and report back on each one. As I'm going to redo my xovers and some of your info could
be very helpful for anyone wanting to improve there's as well! Yes all my electrolytics
will be replaced with quality poly's.
 
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The changes would be for different drivers and it seems they also made changes for
either better sound quality by cleaning up the signal and only having 1 driver at a time
produce a certain frequency or for more power handling as raising the xover points will
do that or lastly for more output for a given watt of power.

With all these different xovers it may be all the above were intended depending on
which xover you used. I find it very odd that there are this drastic of changes in the
same model # as it would make evaluating this speaker quite difficult to label how it
performs and may shed some light on how some people call the HPM a fantastic sound
while others either hate it or at best feel luke warm about them.
 
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I don't think I will be able to build them all. I don't think I have enough skill with electronics. But I do have an extra pair of them around that are fried that I could rebuild. If I do do 2 it would probably be the first (because I already have that one) and the last one because I already have the layout. What kind of coil do you use for these? Air coil? would it help to replace the ones already in my crossovers with new ones? also one of those coils has a nick in the top cover part is it worth worring about?
 
If I did 2 of them I would do the same ones you are leaning towards.

Yes air coils are preferred xover parts "be careful new ones can be quite large" if it was
me I would experiment with the coils you have then once you get the xover the way you
like it then replace the coils with newer/better ones, but for experimentation you should
be fine with the originals.

As long as the nick doesn't let the coils physically create a connection you should be fine.
 
I haven't looked for one nor am I concerned with it as I hope since these are HPM's
which is what that tweeter is, that pioneer at least got that part right. And they are
really just adding a little airryness to the sound and not really much if anything you
are hearing but just a little added romance if you will.
 
also if i can't find a .12 coil would I go with a .15 or .10? well I have lost both from my spair crossovers so where would begin to look for one?
 
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I think I will just recap for now because my buget doesn't want me to do all the spending. Oh well I guess I can just keep researching and design my own crossover when I have enough money.
 
If the wiring is real thin or in bad shape then yah but other then that I wouldn't.
 
HPM-60 2nd order xover in rare version?

Well, my first long reply to this crashed on submit, so here's the short synopsis:

In addition to the well documented 2 versions of the HPM-60 (Series 1 and 2), I believe there are two versions of the crossover used in Series 1, that are quite different. Series 1 has the much lower woofer crossover frequency of 1.2k Hz, and 4k and 12k for the uppers. Series 2 used 1.9k, 3k and 12k Hz for the xover. Both use first order filters for woofer and mid.
The series 2 xover has P/N SWN-155. However, I have found two xovers used in the series 1: P/N SWN 121 is of the same type as SWN 155 (1st order for woof and mid), with different component values.
Interestingly, SWN 109 is a different animal entirely, as it seems to have second order filters for woofer, mid and tweeters. It has far more components on it, including one air coil.

Here is a photo of the SWN 109 crossover:
HPM60%20SWN-109%20xover.jpg


sliverchris had posted a schematic for this xover from a service manual:
HPM 60 crossover thread

The component values on my xover are identical to those listed in silverchris' schematic, except that the common inductance for mid and tweet is 1.2 mH, not 0.12mH as listed in his diagram.
Also note that the 0.35mH inductance for the tweeter is an air coil.
Overall, a much more complex crossover, probably with steeper filter flanks.

Unfortunately the recent set of Series 1 crossovers I bought on eBay comprised 1 each of 109 and 121 types.

This crossover would seem to be quite different that the later types, and I will probably try to test the two type sI have in terms of their filter parameters.

Cheers,
M
 
AHA! No wonder none of the pics I see match mine. I have the earlier ones in mine, with the more complex crossover. It has much different values from what I've seen posted, & I was starting to wonder if these were even stock, but yeah, the Pioneer logo is all over them. I wasn't planning on changing any inductors, just the caps, which are: 125V 13uF, 100V 18uF, 100V 5.6uF, 63V 28uF, & a bipolar @ 63V .5uF. These are all Elna electrolytics (except the large off-board one), so going to a better cap should make a pretty big difference, I'd think, they're "only" about 35 years old. ;) Heck, they sound pretty darn good now, even using the wrong woofers, mine need refoamed.
 

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Yowza, my supertweets are definitely both working. I downloaded audacity (I think susurus linked it in another thread, thanks) and ran a 12000Hz tone, & it definitely cleans out your ears. :D Afterwards, I had a touch of tinnitus, that weird ringing, if I'm using the right term. I'll have to goof around some more, to see how high I can actually hear. :smoke:
 
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