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HT Set Up Questions

Gardyloo

Gardyloo

Member
I keep finding things stashed by my late DH, and look upon them as gifts. Here's the latest.
In the garage I recently found New In Unopened boxes some Pioneer Andrew Jones speakers: One subwoofer -SW-MK82, two floor tower speakers SP-FS52, a center speaker SP-C22, and in the den a pair of BS-22 bookshelf speakers (unboxed, been used, in good shape). Can these be combined to create a home theater set up in my medium size family room? Good sound is nice, loud pounding movie theater quality is not needed.

The current main TV sound set up is a Sony sound bar for my 2013 LG 60" plasma smart tv (it's not that smart). Will these speakers sound better than the sound bar? I'm guessing I need an amplifier, and am hoping I can connect a "found" Sony 5 disc CD player to the set up as well. There's no point in an FM receiver unless it's visually pleasing, I live in a valley with poor FM reception.

Is there a book or guide I can use to set these up? I'm capable of stripping wire without nicking it, and following clearly written directions in normal English, can read some schematics, but it's been a while. Admittedly I have trouble following Ikea picture diagrams, words are better :)

If speaker wire is better if the ends have some solder, I am able to do that too. I vaguely remember soldering speaker wire many, many years ago. What I can't do is crawl under the floor space to run wire, but might be able to hire someone to do that.
Can anyone recommend a modern amplifier with remote for this type of set up, and is it asking too much to be able to play MP3s or stream from my Amazon music library?

Any suggestions and ideas are very welcome
 
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What is the attraction of a home theater for you? Do you go to every new movie as soon as it comes out? What kinds of movies do you like? Action flicks. grand period pieces, epics, and heavily CGI'd sci-fi are the genres where HT really shines. The intimate psych flicks are (for the most part) experienced adequately on your TV/soundbar combo? If you have friends/neighbors with HT systems, suggest you mooch a few flick nights with them to see if its something you really want to get into. Many people are avid HTers at first, then find in time that just flicking on the TV is mostly good enough and a lot less trouble than dorking with AVR setups, DVD players, TV input switching and setup, and juggling 4 or 5 remotes. Gotta know where you want to go to have any chance at all of getting there...
 
Really good questions awillia6, thank you. The attraction is clearer fuller sound. I do see a lot of theater movies, but it's because I have a MoviePass. I'm not into a lot of explosion-type movies, although Wonder Woman was great and I plan to see the new Star Wars soon. The last two I saw saw were Murder on the Orient Express, and the Man Who Invented Christmas, both were great. Victoria and Abdul seemed a little contrived. anyway...

I also like watching concert TV shows at home; have been a big fan of "Live at Darryl's House" for a while. With those shows I always have a table and a drink with no line at the bathroom :)
So good point about not dinking around with the extra remotes, although I use 4 right now depending on what source the show/movie is from. Comcast Remote, Input remote, DVD/Blu-Ray remote, and Roku remote (rarely use the TV remote). And I'm pretty handy at using all of them. Right now the sound bar comes on when the TV comes on. Are you saying with HT I can't just turn it on and have good sound? Gotta play with more knobs and switches? One more remote is no big deal. but I don't want to be fooling around adjusting sound levels for 15 minutes before I watch TV.

No one I know has HT; the only person I knew who did moved away and that neighbor was a little sideways anyway.

One more thing I forgot to mention, and it's important: I'm somewhat deaf and wear high quality in-the-ear hearing aids. I frequently watch TV with cc because modern dialog usually isn't clear enough. The microphones in the hearing aids face forward, so I won't be able to hear much from behind. That said, music is clear and I can also feel sound and vibrations, especially in the lower ranges.

Is it reasonable to put all these speakers except the sub in a semi-circle near the front of the TV and just listen to enhanced sound? Or do I still have to dink around with the settings each time it turns on? I guess what I'm asking is it reasonably possible to get them to work as sort of a fancy sound bar, or are you all cringing when I ask that question?
 
The sound engineers mix the audio for movies very precisely in terms of content, level, placement, and timing. Other posts here show the "official" speaker layout for a 7.1 system and there are various setups that require additional speakers above and outside the main front ones as well as in the ceiling firing down on the listener. All that said, the vast majority of surround sound movies are mixed for 5.1 (the 5 are: front L, center, front R, side surround L, side surround R and the .1 is the subwoofer). I suggest you begin with that setup. Because of your hearing, I doubt you'll get much benefit from the addition of surround back speakers for a 7.1 system, however you should be fine with side surrounds with levels boosted just a bit so you can hear them clearly.

As regards setup and level adjustment, it's not as bad as I implied. Basically, you set things up once (which IS a royal pain), then you use the system with minor tweaks for specific sources, genre, or passing fancy (preference). You typically leave things such that you can watch TV with just the sound bar or internal speaker (no need for surround sound just watching the news/weather) OR you can fire up the AVR and get the full surround effect as/when desired. You're adept with remotes currently, so the AVR remote won't be any big deal for you to handle when needed. You have only to acquire an AVR, run speaker wire from it to each of the 5 speakers (and an RCA cable from the AVR to the subwoofer). Then you can try out the system to see if you really want to make it permanent. If so, you can get a quote on a professional running the wiring so it's not visible. I'll be happy to help you set up the "temporary" system in a way that minimize the financial hit you'll take if you decide you don't like the whole HT thing.

P.S. On the semicircular speaker bank you mentioned, the only true audiophile I know has her speakers set up JUST that way. She tried to explain to me how and why, but it sounded like gobbledegook to me (as does most audiophile-speak). I just mention it so you know you're not alone in thinking about that configuration or even implementing it.
 
Gardyloo said:
Right now the sound bar comes on when the TV comes on. Are you saying with HT I can't just turn it on and have good sound? Gotta play with more knobs and switches? One more remote is no big deal. but I don't want to be fooling around adjusting sound levels for 15 minutes before I watch TV.
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Most modern AV receivers are very user friendly. If you let it be the hub of your system, it will turn on and off with the TV (or cable) remote, just like your sound bar and, if it's like mine, you can control the volume with the same remote as well.

The beauty if that thick HDMI cable is that it can pass signals in two directions, to and from the TV to the receiver.
 
No, you shouldn't need to screw around with the settings every time you turn it on.

OTOH, if you are a KTB* at heart, HT will afford you plenty of opportunity to indulge your proclivities.



*knob-turning bastard ;)
 
Wow, lots of great info here, thanks!! Can a modern AV receiver also be connected to a 5 CD changer for decent sound in my kitchen & family room? There are well over 1000 CDs in the den. Can it connect to my Amazon music library if I get an Echo Dot? Or some other affordable device? If yes, then I'm very ready to try a modern AV receiver, and use it as the hub as the skipper suggests.

whoaru99 said:
if you are a KTB
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haha, a very long time ago I used to repair WWII era tube lathes. When the Operators wanted some overtime, they'd open the little door at the bottom and twist the vacuum tubes so the machine quit working. We used to call those guys TTBs (Tube Twisting Bastards) .

I'm more set it and forget it - after it's set right. So awillia6's suggestion of bringing in a pro for permanent set up makes sense, just so the Pro doesn't have an attitude: "The ship borne artillery on Master and Commander will sound much more realistic if you move the fireplace to the other wall..."
 
Hey, Gardyloo. Those are great questions and I'll try to help.

Yes, you can use those speakers to set up a 5.1 channel surround sound system.

Yes, those speakers will sound a LOT better than the sound bar. I assume that sound bar is connected to the TV.

Yes, you can use that 5 disc CD player.

There are books and manuals available for free on each of your components. Just google the brand name, model number and add owners manual to your search term. They can be downloaded, saved to your HD or you can print them as needed.

However, to get started with this setup you need to purchase a key component needed to make it all work and that is an Audio Visual Receiver aka AVR. An AVR is sort of like the central station that controls all your audio choices, from streaming to playing CD's to listening to your TV. An AVR will also, more that likely, include a tuner but that's just how they are built. And if you add a DVD player, it will also hook up through your AVR and TV for that surround sound experience. Of course, you will need some cabling for the speakers, an audio connection to the AVR from the TV, cables from the CD player to the AVR, cable box to AVR etc...We can deal with those a bit later.

For now, if I was starting with the components you have currently, I'd go shopping for a Home Theater (HT) AVR. You don't need to buy a new one...there are lots and lots of good used ones available out there online, locally, even here on AK. In order to buy here you have to have access to Barter Town and that is done by being a subscriber. It's easy, cheap and well worth the expense as you can find some great deals here.

Once you have found that HT AVR we can then help you start connecting your components to it and get that sound going! And if you have questions on the AVR we're here to help.

We'd be glad to help you get this going here at AK.
 
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Bartertown is one of my favorite places on AK; well worth the cost of a subscription many times over. It's where most of my living room set up came from in the last couple of years: ADS L810 speakers, Audio Technica TT and Marantz 2285b Receiver; added a new 5 cd changer. Great well-maintained equipment offered by honest sellers. Good idea Michael, I'll go take a look over there.

In the meantime, I'm also interested in new equipment with the latest features. It's my birthday later this month and this can be a present to myself whenever I get it.

So the AVR needs to be able to connect/be a hub via remote for:
1. All those speakers
2. BluRay/DVD player
3. Roku
4.Comcast with no hassles
5. CD player
6. Bonus points if it can connect somehow to Amazon music Library and MP3. No turntable because that set up can stay in the living room.

Funny thing about my Amazon music library, when I buy new CDs for my friends, Amazon gives ME an MP3 version of their gift. Nice little bonus.

After the AVR is settled, then we can talk about speaker wire size and all the connection goodies.
 
Yes, that AVR will be where all the audio inputs, and outputs, will be connected. Also, that AVR will be your power source for the speakers and subwoofer so make sure it has a subwoofer output which will simplify things when it comes to having that sub perform while you are watching a movie.

Any AVR will handle 5 speakers and some will also handle 7. We are looking for one with that number of outputs plus a subwoofer out.

DVD audio out to the AVR is usually a digital connection, i.e., optical toslink or digital coax so look for one that has digital inputs.

I'm not that familiar with Roku but I assume you are using this as a streaming device for television programming and it uses an HDMI connection to the TV? If so, we can make that work too.

I foresee no issues with hooking up the Comcast box. The HDMI video out connection goes from the box to your TV HDMI input, the optical audio out from the box goes to an optical input on the AVR.

CD Player is easy as well. There are two ways to connect a CD player to your AVR which are optical toslink and analog RCA.

Where does your amazon library MP3 files reside? On one of your computers?
 
You've got a good handle on the way forward, but I'd caution you against jumping in with both feet until you have a chance to try things out first.

The MOST important consideration of all is that you have hearing problems and presumably cannot hear nearly as well as most of the members of AK community advising you. Therefore, the subtleties associated with chasing after the last 1% or 10% of audio purity is quite likely beside the point in your case. It's really a matter of good enough being good enough. If you wish to quantify things, I suggest consulting your ENT/audiologist and discussing the degree of your hearing loss at different frequencies and in various directions as well as the performance limits of your hearing aid amplifiers to restore your hearing to "normal." There is little sense in paying for TOTL vs. mid-fi or entry level audio equipment when nature's is unable to distinguish between their sonics.

A reasonably capable mid-fi AVR (with most all the bells and whistles) should serve you well either as a long-term keeper or, should you decide to ditch the HT, as a readily disposable item that retains its value in the short-term. To that end, I suggest you "temp" in a home theater setup with such a mid-fi unit, a spool or two of generic 14 ga. speaker wire (no-name zip cord), and boxes/chairs/cleared off tables on which to place the various speakers. Then, do a little setup with guidance from those here, fire up Netflix or the equivalent and watch some movies! After a week or so, you'll know whether you want to spend the time and money to "get serious" and give the HT a more professional and permanent treatment.
 
Items 1 through 5 are no brainers. $'s 2 and 4 simply require HDMI inputs and your CD player needs a red/white analog input. Those can be found on virtually any AVR I can think of. Just make sure it's got and HDMI/ARC output so it can be controlled by the cable box and.or TV*

Doesn't Roku plug directly into the TV?

If you're looking for new, or don't mind good, factory authorized and warranted refurbs, this is a good source. .I just bought an AVR there, and have been buying there for years before.

https://www.accessories4less.com/

* This presumes your TV has an ARC HDMI input. That's the key to having one button control of everything.
 
Wow, thanks again; I've learned so much this afternoon. Yes the TV has an ARC input, I stuck my head around back with a flashlight and saw it. Don't know about the Roku plugging into the TV, but probably yes. But I can find that stuff later, it works for now.

Poking around on the Internet revealed that this is a high quality albeit budget home theater system from a year or so ago, although my DH appears to have bought them as separate components for whatever reason. Cnet did a review and gave them score of 90.

For the hearing issues, I'm due for a audiologist visit early next year, but did a little playing around this afternoon with the bookshelf speakers vs my main ADS speakers. Of course there's a vast sound difference, but I can hear the differences and that's important. Undoubtedly dialogue will be different. With the hearing aids and closed caption, it's almost unnoticeable. Either that or I've adapted. awilla6, you're absolutely right that there's no point in chasing down the last 10% of audio purity and a mid-level AVR with this system will probably be just fine. In fact, I'll probably be thrilled with it.

Should the system be run off a Pioneer AVR so everything goes together, or does it matter? Most of the 5.1 AVRs I looked briefly on Skipper's site today were 50watts, and knowing me, I'd probably be happier with more. Saw a couple of Onkyos with 80 watts, and Pioneers with 90. Reading the specs on the speakers, the bookshelves want a maximum of 80w in, so should I stick with that amount, or is 90-100 ok, and just don't turn them up past 7? The tower and mid say 90w max, and the sub is powered. Last thing, the TV will probably get upgraded in about two years, should I plan for HDR compatibility, or is that overkill in a midrange AVR?

Awillia6, your last paragraph is EXACTLY what I plan to do. If the HT doesn't work out, the system can be used for music in the family room.

So guys, let's pretend you're in my situation and you're looking for a mid range AVR for this set up. Looking at the skipper's site, Amazon or BH Photo, what are some models that you like under $500? Of course less is nicer, that's the soft ceiling. There's a Fry's and Best Buy nearby to look at them in person and get cabling if needed.

I probably shouldn't jump so fast, but I'd sort like to play around with the temporary setup between Christmas and the second week of January. Mid January I'm headed for a badly needed two week vacation. Otherwise I'll end up poking along until the end of February, and that's when all the spring garden catalogs come out ;) .
 
No, I think you're right to jump in fast. You already have the sources, the monitor, the speakers, and the desire; all you really need is the AVR, a few connecting cables of various kinds, and some guidance in setup and operation of the system. Why wait?

I'll start:

Mid-fi AVRs with excellent reputations in the HT area include various models from Pioneer/Onkyo, Yamaha, Marantz, and Denon. I'm most familiar with Denon units and can heartily recommend their 3800-series units from 2008 on. The 3808 is my particular favorite (currently priced used at around $150-$200) as it has just about everything needed and almost nothing unnecessary for the production of great sound, tailored specifically to your speakers and room, and readily operable for HT, multi- and two-channel music once a fairly straightforward setup process is completed.

The above notwithstanding, I have no objection to your selection of a comparable mid-fi model of the other manufacturers mentioned, any of which should be more than adequate to fulfill your audio needs.

Good luck.
 
It doesn't have to be an Pioneer AVR. Rather, I'd get the specs up on the speakers to see what power they require, then find an AVR that meets, or exceeds, the speakers ohm and watt rating. You'll avoid any distortion in playback and you won't kill the AVR by reason of insufficient power. Also, be aware of the ohm rating.

Here are your speaker specs:

Main Left & Right towers: SP-FS52 = Max 130W @ 6 ohms

Center channel: SP-C22 = Max 90W @ 6 ohms

Rear Left & Right surround: BS-22 = Max 80W @ 6 ohms

Given those ratings, I'd try to find an AVR that has a minimum rating of 110W. More is better but less will be OK as long as you don't crank it to the max. A 4 ohm rated AVR would be better than an 8 ohm unit but the 8 ohm unit will drive the speakers. Just don't try to drive these speakers with a 50W, 8ohm AVR. It won't survive the power draw.

Brands? Here are some to consider

Sony
Denon
Yamaha
Pioneer
Emotiva
Marantz.

B&H Photo is having a great sale online on some great AVRs so don't be afraid to look at new.

If you find a particular unit that seems to fit your needs, post up the maker and model number. I'd be glad to help research it.
 
Yamaki said:
Just don't try to drive these speakers with a 50W, 8ohm AVR. It won't survive the power draw.

...
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FWIW, power "draw" (draw in quotes because it is more like a command/push than a draw) is controlled by the volume position. If you don't try to push the 50W unit past its capability there is no reason it or the speakers should be damaged.

FWIW, I use a 60wpc amplifier in a secondary HT system. Granted, the speakers appear slightly more sensitive than the ones of topic, but none the less at a seated distance of 10ft the system can reach near reference level (reference level being 105dB peaks). I seldom use the HT beyond -10dB from reference level which cuts the power requirement by 10 times.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-power (my primary HT has multi-kilowatts of power on tap), but unless one is really cranking it up there isn't need for a ton of power. I guess a lot depends on the situation and how the OP will run the system, considering the specifics of the situation.
 
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Understood on the power draw on the previous two posts. More power and not max it out is my personal preference rather than underpowering and squeezing every last drop . For example, on the living room audio system, when I got the ADR speakers, the old Marantz 2220b does drive them, but it has to work a lot harder. So I'm bumping it up with a Marantz 2285b, thank you Bartertown! :D

So two new developments just since last night.
Speaking of Bartertown, while poking around before I fell asleep, I found this, and asked about it before doing research to discover that it seems to date from about 5 years ago
Onkyo Integra DTR-8.2 surround receiver-$200 plus shipping from Boston.

Then this morning, my contractor who knew I found these speakers dropped off a Yamaha RV-701, with no remote. He said found it on a job site in an abandoned mansion, he had it storage and I can have it free. He's honest, but it's very dusty and he smokes. I have cans of air to blow out the dust. No idea if it works, but from the very brief info I found, it appears to be a good quality 5.1 AVR about 10 years old. Probably can find a remote for about $40, but I know from personal experience you SHOULD look a gift horse in the mouth. We said no thanks on the horse, but what about this?

One of the benefits of AK, is people WILL tell you what they think. Remember it needs to be the hub of the system, not just a part that will "work". So opinions please?
 
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Five years in AVR years is several lifetimes. Things/features change very rapidly. You can't take for granted that what they offer today was even available five years ago.

As for buying used, make damn sure you get a working remote. They are essential to setting them up. Manuals are nice and necessary but can generally be downloaded for free.
 
Like the skipper said, things change so quickly in electronics. For some, that evolution makes it hard to decide on a spec or set of features. And, in some cases, one version of a certain spec may not be compatible with the next or previous version of a spec.

In my experience HDMI is one of those features that, if there is a compatibility issue between an AVR and a monitor/TV, it's usually due to what version HDMI is used by each component.

Even so, HDMI can be used but after struggling mightily with HDMI ARC (Audio Return Channel) through an HDMI connection between the TV & receiver, I dropped HDMI to AVR connections entirely and just use it for DVD to TV & cable set top box to TV connections. In other words, HDMI is used in my system as a video connection only. My point here is that HDMI on the AVR would not be one of my top priority must haves. Rather, I'd prioritize:

1. Power rating
2. Subwoofer out
3. Five channel speaker outputs
4. A remote
5. Lots and lots of digital coax and optical plus RCA analog inputs. If you find one with one or more pairs of balanced XLR inputs that's a plus. Any old AVR with lots and lots of S-Video inputs should be ignored.

The Onkyo Integra line is a good one. I enjoyed one for some years. The DTR-8.2 has no HDMI inputs (no big loss, IMHO) and has a fine suite of digital and analog inputs and outputs. It's rated at 150W continuous at 6 ohms so it definitely has what is needed to drive your speakers without sacrificing quality or putting the circuitry at risk. It has a subwoofer out as well. If you find one with a remote in good condition it would make a good AVR for your system.

I would have passed on the Yamaha R-V701 as well. It's power output is marginal, it had no remote and 1993 technology will not meet your needs.

Between the two, I'd pick the Onkyo Integra DTR-8.2 if it has a remote and is operational.
 
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