Hypothetical. . Rega RP6 vs. Technics SL-1210MK2 vs. Marantz TT-15S1
- Thread starter kamiraa
- Start date
ODS123
Super Member
:yes: on this, John, we can agree! Yikes.
Greyson
Super Member
If you can afford one of those you don't rearrange anything, your servants do.
Purpleamber
Active Member
Everybody has some sort of common ground, right? I'm happy we've found it.
The first table looks to be the Clearaudio Statement. What's the one with the SME arms?
Transrotor Artus
Price: $150,000
The Artus turntable comes straight from the house of German company Transrotor. It weighs 220 kg (480lbs.). The Artus has a contact-less magnetic field drive, a balanced arm and new electronics.
It has a magnetically coupled drive assembly, which means no points of contact between motor and platter. It's machined from solid billets of high-grade aluminum, finished to an impeccable sheen. Its deck is gimbal-mounted to freakishly huge counterweights for absolute level and stability (think gyroscope here).
The reason for the high price is being a 4-in-1 product as it includes a LP player, phonograph, gramophone, and a turntable.
Their website is in German, it's fun to dream while looking at pictures for us budget folks. Kids starting college and all.
I love the 4-in-1....But I'd have to sell all 3 of my children to pay for it.:scratch2:
PS...Not to Hijack the thread, but how do you like your VPI Classic? I am considering one, which I'll start a separate thread shortly about. Don't think I'll do a "vs" type thread tho! lol!!!
I love the thought behind that big table. Sheer force of physics to barrel through the issues. Not sold on its looks but the functionality makes sense.
I like the VPI Classic quite a lot, but if I had it all to do over again it would be a tough choice between it and the Well Tempered Amadeus GTA. I like the look of the Classic more (its a beautiful table, and rock solid), I like the sound/workings of the WT by a hair. They're just different. Even if sometime down the road I get a WT Amadeus, I'd keep the Classic as its more a matter of a different flavor, than one being better than the other. If you have ever had any problems with isolation, its incredibly hard to affect it by outside force...it just keeps on playing, never skips, never fumbles. Very good speed stability, too.
marantzfan
...
You're going to have to post some specs John, there's no way they are better then the SL-1200.
Btw, I used to own a SL-1210 M5G, it was a decent table, but sold it pretty quickly after acquiring my Linn LP12. :yes:
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Technics:
Wow and flutter: 0.025% WRMS (mk2)
Rumble: -78dB (mk2)
VPI:
Wow and flutter: less than .02
Rumble: below - 80db.
Speed accuracy: within .1 %
so...yeah, rubber band drive blah blah blah blah. You can solve most problems in any number of ways, and in audio the decision is up to the listener...as it is in this case between these three tables.
Wow and flutter: 0.025% WRMS (mk2)
Rumble: -78dB (mk2)
VPI:
Wow and flutter: less than .02
Rumble: below - 80db.
Speed accuracy: within .1 %
so...yeah, rubber band drive blah blah blah blah. You can solve most problems in any number of ways, and in audio the decision is up to the listener...as it is in this case between these three tables.
Both BigEric and yourself really make this site miserable - always contriving these arguments and using them over and over in different threads to prove your point that the technics sl1200 is not a great table. You yourself even said the funkfirm version sounded good - however you thought the start/stop button was cheesy? What is so cheesy about a start stop button - that to me is a poser mentality - that the table though could sound great - just doesn't look the part.
I myself haven't said anything negative about the other tables - in fact I really like the RP6. Perhaps your insults stem from what others have said - but I really do not find them that off putting.
I've said this before and I'll say this again - I've auditioned the VPI scout over at Music Lovers in Berkeley. Not one of the tables mentioned - but definitely in the same or better league - one which others wouldn't think twice to complain about. The setup included a VPI Scout with a DV cart (not sure which one - I'm sure it was decent) - I do not recall the amplification - but the Speakers were beautiful tall Paradigms (about 4ft) - cherry wood - oval shaped at the rear - I think they were the model 20 - with speaker cables thicker than the bike lock cable on my Santa Cruz SL. This was a private listening room.
The sales person was a bit of a jerk - what kind of table do you have - I said - a Technics M5G - he said - ohh this is a much better table - blah blah - anyhow - he continued to put on Icky Thump by the White Stripes - immediately sounded terrible - tons of surface noise (he cleaned the album multiple times with a brush prior to play) - pops clicks - very grating sound - sound stage was flat - no definition - very bright - we looked at each other - and decided - bad choice - so he quickly removed it. He then put on some fusion style jazz - the acoustic guitar player sounded like Al Di Meola - much better - sounded good in fact - but certainly didn't beat out my techie. I didn't see the heavens that day. IT WAS NOT BETTER! (sorry for the caps) Equal? Sure - a good basis to try different cartridges with.
My point to all of this is that my deck as it currently stands today (some upgrades of course, beautiful brass bearing etc) works as a perfect framework to allow the cartridge to do its thing. It even did this prior to some of the upgrades.
Think what you want - same cartridge - I bet folks would be hard pressed to point out the better base table.
gusten
Addicted Member
illini
The Past is Alive
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=2138.0
I'm impressed with what the Lenco tribe can accomplish, fwiw.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
I have heard many, many Rega turntables from early Planar series forward to the RP line which is current and in every price range offered by Rega. The RP line from Rega are very improved on speed accuracy and pitch constancy. The RP6 is an excellent turntable in my opinion, the Rega arms are in their price class the standard. I like better belt drive turntables so do not dismiss them out of hand even though I like other drive systems better. That said I do like AC motors better than I do DC motors in terms of speed accuracy and staying referenced to a known standard. I like the best of all drive systems and approaches. But do require practicality and value for the dollar. And after maintaining and repairing broadcast gear, I like being able to enjoy my own music without undue constant tweaking and fuss beyond good maintenance habits. With that said, I bow out of this discussion with kindness and respect. And a lot of appreciation for our OP. So, keep it friendly. There is a lot of good information on this thread. But let us not be polarized.
gusten
Addicted Member
Me thinks that somebody having a different opinion than yourself, makes the site miserable for you. I'm merely expressing my opinion and offering my own viewpoints from past listening to back it up. I did like the Funk Firm modified SL-1200, but that's getting into something like a $3000+ table, and at that price, I'd pick something else as I did not think it bettered the Well Tempered Amadeus, or the VPI Classic, even with all the modifications. I didn't think it was bad by any means, as I said, I liked it. I didn't fall in love with it but it was a nice table. I'm not sure what you expect me to do...lie and say I absolutely loved it, when I didn't?
You're welcome to your opinion, especially as you've gone out and listened to something else. That doesn't make it somehow an opinion that applies to everybody, and that is why many of us HATE when the SL-1200 even comes up in turntable discussions, because for some reason, it's followers cannot even take the slightest hint that its not all every single person on the planet needs for a turntable, as anything less than a gross slander and insult towards it. Me saying its a good turntable isn't good enough for you. Unless i get down on my knees and kiss its ugly rubber feet, you all will not be happy. Its patently absurd.
Have a wonderful evening folks. I'm going to go do something besides develop an absolute hatred for internet turntable forums.
John you are complicating this - it is very simple - I just do not care one bit for your opinion.
Hey Gusten,
Just based on hearing the Scout that day - it was in no way a scientific side by side comparison. All that I do know is that I didn't feel the need to buy the Scout. I wasn't missing anything - it didn't reveal anything new to me. I'm not being cheap here - if it truly sounded better - I'd be all over it.
Thanks!
Well based on all the reading I did a compromise between all.
I boxed back up the original SL-1210mk2 before anything happened to it, and before I played a record on it. I found a few locals already interested in it.
A friend is letting me borrow his gently used SL-1200mk2 for comparison.
I purchased a Marantz TT-15S1 today for a crazy price new from a local dealer. Which has the great clearaudio parts, and very expensive stylus with it.
Trying to convince the same dealer to let me borrow a Rega RP6 to compare them in my room using the speakers I have (B&W CM9s).
Figured based what I was reading the Technics is an amazing turntable, but just needs an arm upgrade to be mind blowing. From a logic standpoint I would rather not take a mint/new turntable and start modifying it right away. It would lose all the value it has as a new table.
So the best compromise is test these 3 turntables side by side, and worst case keep the Marantz, if I ever want an upgrade path take that amazing clearaudio arm that is on it, buy a used technics SL-1200 to mount the clearaudio tonearm on it, and sell the rest of the Marantz parts off on ebay.
Sound like a smart approach?
I boxed back up the original SL-1210mk2 before anything happened to it, and before I played a record on it. I found a few locals already interested in it.
A friend is letting me borrow his gently used SL-1200mk2 for comparison.
I purchased a Marantz TT-15S1 today for a crazy price new from a local dealer. Which has the great clearaudio parts, and very expensive stylus with it.
Trying to convince the same dealer to let me borrow a Rega RP6 to compare them in my room using the speakers I have (B&W CM9s).
Figured based what I was reading the Technics is an amazing turntable, but just needs an arm upgrade to be mind blowing. From a logic standpoint I would rather not take a mint/new turntable and start modifying it right away. It would lose all the value it has as a new table.
So the best compromise is test these 3 turntables side by side, and worst case keep the Marantz, if I ever want an upgrade path take that amazing clearaudio arm that is on it, buy a used technics SL-1200 to mount the clearaudio tonearm on it, and sell the rest of the Marantz parts off on ebay.
Sound like a smart approach?
That is the perfect approach. Some things you have to be careful with (Cartridges, working with your phono pre, etc)
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Agree with that approach Bigerik, makes sense. It's your ears and system which must be satisfied in the end. Let us know what you wind up with, I'd be interested in knowing.