Greyson
Super Member
You're one of those smart guys who likes to belittle someone elses opinion while shouting about how important yours is. Take your own advice, 'cause I can't say anyone in this thread is interested in your opinion either.
Hypothetical. . Rega RP6 vs. Technics SL-1210MK2 vs. Marantz TT-15S1
- Thread starter kamiraa
- Start date
You're one of those smart guys who likes to belittle someone elses opinion while shouting about how important yours is. Take your own advice, 'cause I can't say anyone in this thread is interested in your opinion either.
Me three... and a bunch more Rubenstein besides.
Stacker45
Active Member
I think that given the right tools, a well trained monkey could probably built something similar to an RP6 in about a day or two...just kidding.
I've never heard the Marantz, but, i did compare a Rega RP3 with a 1200 and prefered the 1200's sound signature.I don't know if the RP6 is a significant improvement over the RP3, but i doubt it would be night and day.
I can't remember who said that the RP6 has a better arm than the 1200, and i agree, but in my opinion, that's all it has that's better than the 1200.
I've never heard the Marantz, but, i did compare a Rega RP3 with a 1200 and prefered the 1200's sound signature.I don't know if the RP6 is a significant improvement over the RP3, but i doubt it would be night and day.
I can't remember who said that the RP6 has a better arm than the 1200, and i agree, but in my opinion, that's all it has that's better than the 1200.
Ok you really got me there I fold!
I guess I'm the real annoying technics guy. Cool
Bob_in_OKC
Addicted Member
If you think the Technics is beaten by the Rega only in the tonearm, I've got news for you...That's quite enough. The tonearm is a pretty big deal.
sled108
Super Member
Hey, I'd still like to know if the Marantz TT-15S1 sounds a Thousand Bucks++ better than my Marantz 6200 with the SoundSmith Stanton 881 Ruby Cart?
I really Like the TT-15S1, and I think that It is a Keeper...But, how much Better Does it Sound? They're Both Rubber Bander's..
I really Like the TT-15S1, and I think that It is a Keeper...But, how much Better Does it Sound? They're Both Rubber Bander's..
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Yes, attempting to compare all three with your own ears is the smart approach. I haven't heard the Marantz, though I have heard Clearaudio models, nor do I have much time with an RP6; I've certainly never come close to the type of comparison you are hoping to arrange, so take these thoughts as just general impressions of similar 'tables.
Clearaudio products, to my ears, have excellent extension, detail retrieval, and spatial properties--music can come across as quite vivid on a Clearaudio design. However, they fail to engage me with the music like some other designs do. Another poster decried the use of terms like pace, rhythm, and timing, but I have to confess that those are the most important areas for me. I can enjoy a closed-in, airless, spatially constricted, and dark performance as long as the music has good pace, flow, and is rhythmically intelligible.
The Technics SL1200 does not have the spatial and detail recovery strengths of the Clearaudio, but I find it does have better timing and marginally better rhythmic integrity. For that reason, I would prefer the Technics to the Clearaudios I've heard.
Unlike some others in this thread, I really like even the bottom-of-the-line Regas. The Technics may be better at timing, but the Regas are among the most rhythmically adept turntables on the market and exhibit better pace also. In comparing an SL1200 to the Rega P1, the P1 was easily the more musically engaging 'table to my ears. Michael Trei of Sound and Vision compared the P1, Music Hall MMF 2.2, and the SL1200 Mk II, and found both of the entry-level belt drives to sound better to him than the Technics.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20005951-47.html
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/face-best-turntable-budget?page=0,3
I'm hoping, of course, that the Marantz you bought proves to be everything you hoped for for this turntable purchase. If it shares the strengths and weaknesses of the Clearaudio 'tables I've heard, that's not necessarily a bad thing because many vinyl fans live for just those attributes that Clearaudio excels in. My foregoing comments were in no way meant to say I think the Marantz might be a "bad" choice; they were simply intended to point out that turntable designs differ in how they present music, and that different people can prefer one style of presentation over another. As you're hoping to do, you just need to audition the ones you're interested in to discern which has the balance of strengths you prefer. It will be very interesting to hear your comments and conclusions if you get a chance to do that.
gusten
Addicted Member
FWIW
If I´d bought the Marantz I would not try to compare it with any other TT, it´s just bound to confuse things.
Live with the Marantz and see if You like it. If You really like it after some time, just keep it and be happy. It´s most likely so that of these TTs none of them is 'the best' anyway.
It´s only about listening to music.
gusten
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Bob_in_OKC
Addicted Member
This is great advice. :tresbon:
Yup! Can't argue with that!
Doing comparisons is a way to increase our knowledge of how products differ and how those differences might relate to our enjoyment of recorded music. I don't see how increased information should be confusing. It's possible that doing comparisons might make a person wish they'd made a different choice (or just as likely confirm that they made the right choice), but that's learning from experience, not the creation of confusion.
Bob_in_OKC
Addicted Member
Perhaps gusten's choice to use the word "confuse" is debatable but the advice on the whole is very sound. I think listening intently to A/B comparisons or trying to discern certain sonic characteristics for the purposes of choosing which is best can be counterproductive. It's ultimately better (to me) to just relax and take it in.
Exactly. Nothing wrong with really getting used to a single piece of gear and establish a baseline for yourself.
Well, maybe our backgrounds are different. I put great faith in comparative listening; that's not only how I built my first "serious" system about 30 years ago, it's also how I helped many customers build their systems when I worked in audio sales. You need to establish the level of musical satisfaction one will be satisfied with, as well as determine the sonic attributes that appeal to each person. You do that by listening to products/systems with different strengths and weaknesses. Bill might really appreciate what a SOTA, Jolida, Vandersteen system does well, while George finds it totally unmoving and prefers an all Rega setup. I don't think it's necessary to buy one product and live with it for a long time, avoiding comparisons with competing gear, to get a baseline for what it does. In my opinion, avoiding comparisons prevents getting a baseline for what it does and doesn't do.
I don't disagree with any of that. However, it can be very difficult to do comparisons with things like turntables. Just coming in cold into a store, likely listening to a system you don't know, different cartridge, different phono preamp, in a strange room, makes the comparison harder. It is also tough when you haven't established a baseline for what you really like and don't like in a sound. That's why I suggested living with it for a while and getting used to it first, then what you know what you like about it, and don't like about it, see what if you can find something you like more.
You really have to spend time with turntables in particular, I find. Store demos only show the biggest of differences. It's the subtleties that make you love a piece for the long term, or not. And those take many nights of relaxed listening to really come through.
gusten
Addicted Member
This was an advise I got from from a great loudspeaker designer. At the time it didn´t struck me as a very good advise, but it does nowadays.
One of the reasons is the difficulties in doing a comparing that doesn´t favor any of them. None of them can be considered a reference to compare the others with.
So most likely we will not in the end make a better choice if we compare them directly, than if we live with one at a time for a longer period IMO.
gusten
And I don't disagree with any of that, which is why I worded my previous response the way I did. A good audio retailer will help a customer determine what he likes and doesn't like in sound, and they will invite that customer to bring in his entire existing system, if any, to let him hear how each component may or may not be limiting his enjoyment compared with other available products. In-home demonstrations as well as delivery and setup of the component or system purchased was also part of the service our customers could expect. What we wanted to help customers avoid was the merry-go-round of continually buying and selling components in hopes of finally getting a system that worked for them; our goal was to establish, by audition, what would work for them so that their first purchase was a long-term, satisfying one.
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