I got laughed out of the last forum I was on with this idea...

[DavidVs1]

I've been experimenting with Sony Core.
I've also been a little let down by the center speaker sscs8
My stupid idea.
Take the larger drivers and tweeter from 2 sscs5. Put them in a center enclosure.
And use a crossover from sscs8 center.

I know that the crossover and drivers were not made for this and it's more than likely a very high probability of failure but is there anyone who has ever tried something similar? Can you suggest any tips to maybe increase the likelihood of improving on the center for core series?
Could I get a different crossover that might maybe get better results with larger driver I want to use from Sony sscs5. Again, I know this will most likely fail but if there is anything I can do to help increase the odds, I'd like to know.
Is there a crossover aftermarket that's more forgiving of drivers to use in an application such as this.
Please don't make fun of me.
I know this is a doomed idea to start but sometimes failing at something is a great teacher and I think it could be fun to try this sometime just to do something that if it works, would be really interesting because there is no sony center with large drivers in the center core series. This could be really cool if I could make it work and sound as good but hopefully better than the stock sscs8.
Surely there's other mad scientists out there that have tried stupid doomed ideas such as what I'm proposing lol. I know it's a shot in the dark but if I have thought of this, I'm sure there are others lol

 

[swechsler]

Will it work? Probably. Will it sound good? That's hard to say. I'm not sure, but unless you're going to make a different ported subenclosure for each woofer, you're going to have a difficult time calculating the ideal cabinet and port size, at least without measuring the T/S parameters (since I doubt Sony has published them) to construct a single cavity enclosure. Also, you'd probably be better off using both the midrange and tweeter from the SSCS5, since that's how it was originally designed. You could use the low to mid and mid to high sections from the SSCS5, and just design a low-pass crossover for the woofers (or you could use the existing low pass section from the old crossovers, and just use the bass section for each woofer separately, rather than crossing them over together using the combined impedance). You definitely do not want to use a pre-built crossover, since they're designed for an ideal driver (i.e. one with a flat impedance curve) that doesn't generally exist.

If you decide that making two ported subenclosures with a single cabinet is worth your while, then you can just calculate the interior volume of the SSCS5, then build a single cabinet with two separate cavities of that volume, and use the ports from the old speaker.

However...why not just use a single SSCS5 as a center? It would be much easier, and there's nothing that says a center channel needs to have dual woofers.

 

[swechsler]

Possibly a speaker building expert can chime in and let us know if you can just double the enclosure size and use dual ports when doubling the woofers in the same cabinet. But one thing I forgot to mention is that you'll need to reduce the woofer output to compensate for the fact that there are now two of them, otherwise the bass will overwhelm the other drivers.

 

[rothwellaudio]

Yes, you can put two identical bass drivers into one cabinet with one port and have it work correctly.
A crossover that isn't perfectly designed for the drivers it's working with will still work to the extent that it will prevent the tweeter from being fried, but it will sound sub-optimal. Yes, it's possible to fine tune a crossover by ear (to some extent) if you understand the function of each component in the crossover, have good ears and can do some basic calculations.

 

[Grenadeslio]

here's the thing, the center for the Core series was designed to have a similar timbre to the other speakers in the series. Once you alter this it won't so there's no reason to stay with the Sony Core series.

With this in mind, and your actual goal is larger mid/bass drivers in a center speaker, get a Jamo C-10 center and be done with it. But be aware this thing is big so plan ahead.



https://www.jamo.com/products/c10cen

These were part of the crazy Amazon sale a few yrs back, might still be able to snag one cheap from a flipper on eBay, I see there are still some C-103's being offered for cheap. Good luck in your endeavor.

 

[swechsler]

Yes, you can put two identical bass drivers into one cabinet with one port and have it work correctly.

Yes, but what adjustments need to be made? For example, if you have a driver that's in a 1 cu ft enclosure with a 2" dia x 10" long port, what would be the dimensions for the box and the port if you put two of the same drivers in? Can you assume 2 cu ft and two 2" x 10" ports?

 

[DavidVs1]

Will it work? Probably. Will it sound good? That's hard to say. I'm not sure, but unless you're going to make a different ported subenclosure for each woofer, you're going to have a difficult time calculating the ideal cabinet and port size, at least without measuring the T/S parameters (since I doubt Sony has published them) to construct a single cavity enclosure. Also, you'd probably be better off using both the midrange and tweeter from the SSCS5, since that's how it was originally designed. You could use the low to mid and mid to high sections from the SSCS5, and just design a low-pass crossover for the woofers (or you could use the existing low pass section from the old crossovers, and just use the bass section for each woofer separately, rather than crossing them over together using the combined impedance). You definitely do not want to use a pre-built crossover, since they're designed for an ideal driver (i.e. one with a flat impedance curve) that doesn't generally exist.

If you decide that making two ported subenclosures with a single cabinet is worth your while, then you can just calculate the interior volume of the SSCS5, then build a single cabinet with two separate cavities of that volume, and use the ports from the old speaker.

However...why not just use a single SSCS5 as a center? It would be much easier, and there's nothing that says a center channel needs to have dual woofers.

Thank you!
That's the type of thinking I appreciate!
I had considered doing very similar to what you suggested and it's so refreshing to get help from someone else who can think like that.
I ended up buying myself a polk cs2 that was modded with a Heil Ess tweeter.
If I don't like it, the box has already been altered to allow the bigger Heil tweeter. I figured I could remove it and the opening should be about the same cutout as the tweeter and super tweeter from the sscs5. And I can try your idea of putting in the that section and leaving the woofer intact.
If all that fails.
I also have several other polk centers to try out and if I absolutely need to.
I have a cs10, cs20, csi3..... I know the csi5 would be better but have not found one in the price range I'm willing to get one. Plus it's so deep!

I also am considering a switch to polk towers for front LR.... The glaring problem with that is I'm severely limited on space.
Nearly every tower I've looked at is too deep to fit in the space I have.
Sony sscs3 and polk t50 and Dayton 442t fit nicely but when I check other towers dimensions they are usually an inch or more too big.
I like how the sscs3 sounds with highs but it is a little lacking in bass, not much though. It's my favorite so far.
Polk t50 has better bass but to me the highs are lacking.
Dayton 442t sound as good or better than polk t-50 with bass but can't compare to the highs in sony sscs3.
Do you know of any good but fairly inexpensive towers that are not very deep? But still good.

I've considered re-engineering the polk tower enclosure. What I mean is keep the exact same airspace but "massage them" so that the box is less deep and instead wider and if needed taller, to account for my severe space limitations.
I hope that makes sense.
I will work on creating a mock up of my living room /home theater to help everyone visualize easier what I'm dealing with.

Thanks everyone for the replies

 

[swechsler]

You're always better off when the center matches the L/R speakers; not necessarily the same model but should be from the same line. If the center and fronts are not voice matched, it can be jarring when watching a movie where, for example, a character moves from the left to the right side of the screen and the dialogue travels with them.

 

[DavidVs1]

Here is photo of the mockup of my space.
If you have any trouble understanding them just ask. Sorry they are so crowded but I wanted to be detailed.

Please ignore any gear that's been penciled in, it was just spit balling when I created these mockups originally.
But the layout is correct
First pic is top view
Second is side view

I can't figure out how to remove the IMG in message that didn't work. When I edit the post to remove them, they don't show up lol. I guess just ignore the two failed attempts to add pics and just look at the ones that uploaded fine lol. Sorry for the extra clutter in message but I can't remove them.

 

[rothwellaudio]

Yes, but what adjustments need to be made?

To be honest, I can't remember off the top of my head. I'd have to look it up to check, but it's certainly possible. There are lots of commercial loudspeakers which use two bass drivers in a single box with a single port.

 

[Grenadeslio]

To be honest, I can't remember off the top of my head. I'd have to look it up to check, but it's certainly possible. There are lots of commercial loudspeakers which use two bass drivers in a single box with a single port.

The Jamo C-10 center is one example lol.

 

[DavidVs1]

Additional info that might help about my space.
There is approximately 11" or less depth behind my front door and it opens in toward the towers. That's why the depth is so critical.

I have about 10 inches on either side of the projection screen before on the left side, I run into a wall and on the right, I run into the hallway doorway. I think the length of that wall is about 133" and I'm using up every inch.

I've also built a custom valance to hide the ugly projector casing that was all dinged up. And then in front of the valance at either end but still attached I made shelves that are just shy of 9" from ceiling.
My thought is to put atmos speakers at either end. I am renting and can't cut holes in ceiling but I got approval for plant holders and I designed shelves that attached to the wall, valance and plant holder in ceiling and this shelf can easily hold 20 or more pounds on each shelf. So that will allow me to very close to ceiling shelves to put my atmos on.

In front of room there was originally a bench to sit down and remove shoes. WAF required me to get creative because of course she wanted to keep it there. So I cut off the back of bench to allow me to put the center on a stand behind the bench and still keep the bench.

I still have to make the rear height shelves for the rear atmos but the front is done.
Before you ask any I didn't flip the room the other way to have more room for towers up front. And the reason why is all my outermost walls are concrete block. Interior walls are MUCH easier to add large structures to, such as my complex shelf /valance monstrosity and trying to secure that to concrete block didn't fly with the landlord, so there are many parameters such as WAF, landlord, space, and, and... It's quite challenging creating this with so many restrictions but I'm doing my best lol.

If you see something I missed, I'm happy to listen because I've wracked my brain trying to make everything fit in such a space as I have and the very limited budget I have as well.
That's why I appreciate people who don't laugh at me. Can appreciate how difficult it can be to build HT with basically one arm tied behind your back because of all the restrictions placed on the build.
Sorry if this is so long but it's hard to understand my space without a long explanation lol

Check out the pic to see my shelf monster lol.
Please keep in mind I am building this with scraps I've repurposed. And had no work space. I made it with basic electric saws and hand tools on patio outside and in our small kitchen lol. So please don't be too harsh on me.
And, I found someone local who sold me some sony core stuff really cheap so I do have some sony core stuff as well as polk. I'm good at finding local deals imo lol.

Also, I put the two center speakers on it to test for weight but not necessarily going to use them there BUT..
while I'm on the subject, can you use center speakers for atmos speakers if they have wide dispersion?
I'm having a little trouble finding a speaker to fit on shelf but center fit, so I thought I'd ask.
If I could do it over I would have gotten a taller board for valance but I was using stuff I had on hand and now that it's all done, I wish I would have been able to make a taller shelf.
But part of it was using what I had handy to keep build cost down.

I hope the pic I added will help.
I also know there is not much love for Sony Core it seems but to me they are sound pretty darn good and I can find them really cheap because people buy into the all Sony=bad.... And normally I'd agree but I'm really enjoying the core series for a budget system. Except for the small center that is lol.

 

[swechsler]

Again, I don't see why you don't just use a single SS-CS5 as a center. You can lay it on its side if necessary to save height, and then it's only 1.25" higher than the SS-CS8.

 

[DavidVs1]

Again, I don't see why you don't just use a single SS-CS5 as a center. You can lay it on its side if necessary to save height, and then it's only 1.25" higher than the SS-CS8.

I understand what you're saying but when the projection screen is fully down you only have about 9" of space under it until you meet the bench/speaker stand and sscs5 is about 13" tall and I've read that it will not sound good if you put it in a horizontal position. Also wouldn't the sony with two 4" drivers be slightly better than the single 5"driver in the sscs5? The frequency response at first glance looks to be about the same but I have not looked really closely to be honest because it wouldn't fit anyway with sscs5. But thanks for the suggestion.

 

[DavidVs1]

One other thing I want to add.
In the diagram I made that shows the subs up front.
I don't think I can fit both.
I'm thinking of putting one off to the right of the bench between the tower and center, and then the other sub in the back of the room to the left of middle.
Dolby showed a diagram setup for two subs like this and I think it will work better in my space and hopefully balance the sound as good or better.

 

[swechsler]

I've read that it will not sound good if you put it in a horizontal position.

You own the speakers already, don't you? Just try one by itself on its side in the center position and see how it sounds. Most speakers will work fine in either a horizontal or vertical position; most exceptions are those with limited dispersion in one direction. Since this speaker uses only cones and domes, that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[DavidVs1]

You own the speakers already, don't you? Just try one by itself on its side in the center position and see how it sounds. Most speakers will work fine in either a horizontal or vertical position; most exceptions are those with limited dispersion in one direction. Since this speaker uses only cones and domes, that shouldn't be an issue.

I don't own it yet but I think can borrow one to try that scenario out. It may take a day or so to get it but I think I can make it happen.

Without going into a long story I have someone that will let me borrow stuff to try but unfortunately there's not much of a selection lol. Some polk centers that I've mentioned and the sony stuff, as well as the other stuff I've mentioned.

I'm keeping the receiver, which is the pioneer vsx-lx303 which allows me to do 5.2.2
And I'm leaning towards keeping the sony towers but I read that the bookshelf speakers, sscs5 on stands might sound better. But I've got to contend with rear firing ports with those and the towers have front ports.

I think I may see if I can borrow sscs5 to try using three for LCR all sscs5 front suggestion.
At least to see what happens lol.
Thanks for the suggestion

 

[Spiceman50]

I've been experimenting with Sony Core.
I've also been a little let down by the center speaker sscs8
My stupid idea.
Take the larger drivers and tweeter from 2 sscs5. Put them in a center enclosure.
And use a crossover from sscs8 center.

I know that the crossover and drivers were not made for this and it's more than likely a very high probability of failure but is there anyone who has ever tried something similar? Can you suggest any tips to maybe increase the likelihood of improving on the center for core series?
Could I get a different crossover that might maybe get better results with larger driver I want to use from Sony sscs5. Again, I know this will most likely fail but if there is anything I can do to help increase the odds, I'd like to know.
Is there a crossover aftermarket that's more forgiving of drivers to use in an application such as this.
Please don't make fun of me.
I know this is a doomed idea to start but sometimes failing at something is a great teacher and I think it could be fun to try this sometime just to do something that if it works, would be really interesting because there is no sony center with large drivers in the center core series. This could be really cool if I could make it work and sound as good but hopefully better than the stock sscs8.
Surely there's other mad scientists out there that have tried stupid doomed ideas such as what I'm proposing lol. I know it's a shot in the dark but if I have thought of this, I'm sure there are others lol

I did it and to my knowledge, I've never been laughed at in AK? Regardless... the world is your oyster. Do what YOU want to do. I'd post a link here for you, but I'm at work and on my phone. I'll try and jump back in here tomorrow and give you some thoughts.

Garry

Edit....

See if this link works from my phone. Thread has pics of my center channel along with surround backs

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/my-ads-5-1-ht-project.781555/

 

[DavidVs1]

I did it and to my knowledge, I've never been laughed at in AK? Regardless... the world is your oyster. Do what YOU want to do. I'd post a link here for you, but I'm at work and on my phone. I'll try and jump back in here tomorrow and give you some thoughts.

Garry

Edit....

See if this link works from my phone. Thread has pics of my center channel along with surround backs

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/my-ads-5-1-ht-project.781555/

Thanks so much for the reply and the link. It sounds like that link may be exactly what I was looking for. I'm gonna check it out after this reply.
No one here in this forum has been rude in the least. I absolutely love it here so far!
If your link turns out to be what I'm trying to do, and it sounds like it is. I may want to pick your brain in the very near future. I hope you may be able to answer some of my questions if and or when I come up with them. I won't waste your time asking you everything. I'll see what I can figure out on my own first lol. But I may have some if you don't mind.
Thanks again for the link!
Going there now.

 

[Spiceman50]

No no ... ask me anytime, be glad to you help where I can. Not to worry if you feel your bugging me either. Like you, when I started out I was just a little chastised over what they called Frankenspeakers. Immediately knew I was in the wrong company. Eventually I found AK and was warmly welcomed. I love the folks and the passion of the people here at AK. It's a joy to wake up and check the forums. So ask away ......

So that it's said, it's been my experience, that one should always try and match the center with the mains. It was my experience after trying several center channel speakers that nothing was going to work with my ADS main speakers. So, I built the Center using ADS parts similar to the mains. And it was a match made in heaven.

Garry~