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I just bought some tube gear...what did I get myself into?!? Help. Somebody. Anybody. Everybody.

angelaudio

angelaudio

Super Member
Holy crap. What have I done?

Bought a McIntosh MC30 and a McIntosh C8 preamp and now I think I’m in over my head!

First off, I’m a total tube newb! I know almost nothing about tube gear and after reading up on my C8 preamp I am seriously starting to think I should just stick to solid state.

The reason I’m feeling this way is because I went over to look for the C8 manual on HiFiengine and there were a couple of guys that posted essays about everything from riaa curves to the better band with of 78’s to how easily my C8 can take a dive on me. I love music and I love the sound of tunes but the posts these guys wrote on the hifi engine C8 page has me thinking maybe I should leave tube to the pro’s and mosey back on down to my SolidState cradle to suck my thumb and take a nice little nap!

excuse my French but holy **** does this tube stuff get complicated! Am I right?

Folks, what have I gotten myself into?

I’m a quick learner, I know how to solder, and I’m willing to spend hours digging my head into tube literature; but is that enough to get me to be able to understand, enjoy and work on my own tube gear?

Tube is intimidating and it sometimes seems as though one would need an audio engineering degree to actually know what the heck is going on inside these beautiful beasts! Sigh**

Excuse me if I am sounding dramatic but I’m just not in the position to be frying amps/preamps and then taking them down to the local repair shop and shelling out hundreds of dollars to have them worked on. I want to be able to know how my gear works so that if I ever needed to repair or replace anything I could simply do it myself.

That being said, it’s obvious that I’m in need of a major crash course in tube amplification and I would absolutely love for everyone to chime in here and share some thoughts on what they believe is absolutely fundamental tube knowledge and what isn’t. In other words, what do I NEED to know about how tube gear works and what should I AVOID breaking my head over.

Any and all advice/comments/suggestions/previous experiences/philosophies are welcome.

Thank you in advance
-confused, intimidated, & perplexed
 
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Get a grip man. I started out as a total newb a couple years ago. 2 weeks in I found myself in the water when one of the tubes exploded. Just 2 weeks into tubes and there I sat bewildered and confused, like you. It was painful, it was expensive, but two years later amps are finally stable and I`m now in relax and enjoyment mode. Plenty of help available here. First piece of advice is check your supply voltage. If its into the 120`s get yourself a voltage reducer.

I survived, so will you.
 
angelaudio said:
Holy crap. What have I done?

Bought a McIntosh MC30 and a McIntosh C8 preamp and now I think I’m in over my head!

First off, I’m a total tube newb! I know almost nothing about tube gear and after reading up on my C8 preamp I am seriously starting to think I should just stick to solid state.

The reason I’m feeling this way is because I went over to look for the C8 manual on HiFiengine and there were a couple of guys that posted essays about everything from riaa curves to the better band with of 78’s to how easily my C8 can take a dive on me. I love music and I love the sound of tunes but the posts these guys wrote on the hifi engine C8 page has me thinking maybe I should leave tube to the pro’s and mosey back on down to my SolidState cradle to suck my thumb and take a nice little nap!

excuse my French but holy **** does this tube stuff get complicated! Am I right?

Folks, what have I gotten myself into?

I’m a quick learner, I know how to solder, and I’m willing to spend hours digging my head into tube literature; but is that enough to get me to be able to understand, enjoy and work on my own tube gear?

Tube is intimidating and it sometimes seems as though one would need an audio engineering degree to actually know what the heck is going on inside these beautiful beasts! Sigh**

Excuse me if I am sounding dramatic but I’m just not in the position to be frying amps/preamps and then taking them down to the local repair shop and shelling out hundreds of dollars to have them worked on. I want to be able to know how my gear works so that if I ever needed to repair or replace anything I could simply do it myself.

That being said, it’s obvious that I’m in need of a major crash course in tube amplification and I would absolutely love for everyone to chime in here and share some thoughts on what they believe is absolutely fundamental tube knowledge and what isn’t. In other words, what do I NEED to know about how tube gear works and what should I AVOID breaking my head over.

Any and all advice/comments/suggestions/previous experiences/philosophies are welcome.

Thank you in advance
-confused, intimidated, & perplexed
Click to expand...

Just find a tech that can bring the pieces up to spec, then listen and enjoy your new mono system.
Find an old mono turntable and some mono recordings and your there.

I would ask, how often do you bring out your soldering iron on your solid state gear? Do the same with the tube stuff. Take it to a tech.
 
Welcome to tubes, the older handsomer brother of solid state electronics. Take a moment and relax, it’s going to be alright. You purchased yourself some highly regarded equipment that was designed and built extremely well, it does the exact same function as a SS system, no voodoo at all. The question is, has it been serviced recently or does it need some level of refresh to be put into service safely? What do you know of it’s history? These are not the typical beginner DIY pieces, so IF they need servicing a reputable tech is recommended.

Bill
 
You've got this dude. McIntosh knew what they were doing, you don't need to know much to get them to work. People claiming that they need modification in order to sound right are up to no good. When these were made, lots of folks built their hi fi rigs as kits. Believe it or not the engineers in those days published the entire schematic in a magazine for anyone to copy, what are today's companies hiding? The McIntosh gear isn't especially different from other brands service wise, it's just a very high quality example. learn to test caps for dc leakage, check resistors with one leg lifted and shotgun the electrolytics, and you should be there. Also take notes, pictures, and ask questions. If you decide to pass on the opportunity I know there will be people searching for a single '30 because I'm one of them, you shouldn't have a hard time passing it on.
 
Just like many things new they seem more intimidating than they actually are and after you get familiar you wonder why you were worried about it. Pop the covers and have a look around. It won't hurt a thing.
 
Deep breath. Repeat after me:

What one man can do, another can do.

If you want to understand tube electronics, you can start here (it's one of the first few threads in the Tube Audio sub forums here, just a few lines above this thread):

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/how-does-a-tube-amp-work.443915/

If that information makes some sense to you, then just continue searching and absorbing from this forum. It's highly likely that anything you need to know has already been posted here.

But, if that thread is too complicated for you, I agree with others that you may be better off seeking out an experienced tech. Diving into high voltage that can seriously harm or end you is not the best introduction to electronics.

By the way, I don't recall you saying what condition your newly acquired gear is in presently? I read your other thread a little about seeking another MC30 but don't recall you saying if you've listened to anything.

-Steve
 
Take everything you read on line with a grain of salt. There is a ton of good info online, but a myriad of opinions as well.
Do the pieces work? Can you listen to them?

secondly, just to make sure, you know those are mono pieces, not stereo, correct?

third, you live in a highly populated area, there has to be some quality, knowledgeable resources near by.....hobbyists as well as commercial.

finally, the gear holds its value. You won’t lose money if it doesn’t work out for you.

take your time and don’t get too freaked out. I was in the same boat as you 20 years ago. Look how good I turned out. Seriously I have made some great friends and had a blast teaching myself, experimenting and expanded my enjoyment of recorded music. Good luck!
 
I will point out there is often a difference between can and should, the value of Macintosh equipment can be greatly affected by its originality and condition, and make no mistake Macintosh tube equipment is prized stuff. If that is of no concern and a person is fully aware of the safety issues, then sure have at it. Otherwise there are professional technicians with the proper test and repair equipment on their bench who add value to the process, and yes you pay more for that experience up front. Not everyone wants to DIY their stuff just to listen to it. Learning DIY tube maintenance on a console pull, or a cheaper amp is advised.

And this is not a tube issue, if you had bought vintage Macintosh solid state equipment, my recommendations all would remain the same.

Bill
 
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Pull out the color band chart for Sprague bumble bee caps. if you can make sense of it, and correctly ID the caps, that will probably be the hardest part of refreshing these units. Decoding faded paint rings on 70 year old capacitors can be a headache, but with the schematic and photo fact you should prevail, how is your soldering? Maybe throw together a 9300 Maggotbox if you feel like you need some practice...
 
You got yourself into an investment, of either time, money, or both. In my experience, using old tube amps without restoring them can be very frustrating and very expensive. I would set out to get them restored before using them. It's what I should have done with mine, before they broke and lost value.

The bright side is that some tube equipment can be very luscious, sonically, with better resolution and transparency. Of course, other tube equipment may sound like murky sludge. You should be fine with yours, if it is restored.
 
Over in the Mac forum your questions were regarding the McIntosh AE2 preamp.

In the early 50s playing records was a complicated situation........there were old record standards like 78s as well as new emerging ground breaking options and the ongoing conflict as various software (record) suppliers fought for market acceptance and hopefully market dominance.

For a vintage record collector a C4 or C8 offers the ability to faithfully replicate these various formats, the AE2 is limited in that capability.

I do believe we recommended that you buy a second MC30 and a modern preamp since you implied you wanted to only play modern stereo records.

In any case these units are 60-70 years old and need proper attention by a tech to determine what might be needed to use them as daily drivers.
 
Legrace said:
Get a grip man. I started out as a total newb a couple years ago. 2 weeks in I found myself in the water when one of the tubes exploded. Just 2 weeks into tubes and there I sat bewildered and confused, like you. It was painful, it was expensive, but two years later amps are finally stable and I`m now in relax and enjoyment mode. Plenty of help available here. First piece of advice is check your supply voltage. If its into the 120`s get yourself a voltage reducer.

I survived, so will you.
Click to expand...
That blows...literally! That's exactly what I hope to avoid. I don't even want to plug anything in until I have a basic general knowledge of how everything should be setup. The guy I bought them from advised me not to use the 8-pin connector because of the possibility of blowing one of the transformers so I'm trying to find a preamp with it's own power supply. I had purchased a McIntosh c 8 the other day but since it didn't have a power supply I contacted the seller and luckily was able to get a refund. By voltage reducer you mean like a variac? Do you service and maintain your amps yourself now or do you still prefer to use a tech?
 
biscuithead said:
Just find a tech that can bring the pieces up to spec, then listen and enjoy your new mono system.
Find an old mono turntable and some mono recordings and your there.

I would ask, how often do you bring out your soldering iron on your solid state gear? Do the same with the tube stuff. Take it to a tech.
Click to expand...
Rarely bring the soldering iron out on my SS gear if at all. I haven't had to fortunately but if I ever have to I seriously doubt I will be able to do any proper repairs seeing as how I don't have the proper equipment i.e. oscilloscope, signal generator etc. etc. I'm leaning towards getting a stereo setup but in the meantime a mono setup will have to do.
 
Schmidlapper said:
Welcome to tubes, the older handsomer brother of solid state electronics. Take a moment and relax, it’s going to be alright. You purchased yourself some highly regarded equipment that was designed and built extremely well, it does the exact same function as a SS system, no voodoo at all. The question is, has it been serviced recently or does it need some level of refresh to be put into service safely? What do you know of it’s history? These are not the typical beginner DIY pieces, so IF they need servicing a reputable tech is recommended.

Bill
Click to expand...
Thank you for the warm welcome:beerchug: and Fortunately the power supply was rebuilt in 2001 according to a paper I found inside tucked away behind the wires. Caps were replaced with ic wrm's so looks like I'm good to go in that respect, but I'm still taking it to a tech to make sure everything is ok. Thanks for the advice!
 
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