Idea Help for My Vintage Advent Dolby Atmos Home Theater

[Calrissian]

I've finished restoring the first floor living area of our 1908 home and now I'm ready to kick back, relax, and be entertained for a while.

Time for a Home Theater System!

And I have this crazy idea that I can piece together a decent home theater system using some of my favorite vintage Advent speakers. Truth is that we have a leather sofa and a 75" TV on the way and there isn't much left in the budget for audio. (At least not according to my wife.) I looked into some of the newer high end soundbars as well as the more modest systems offered my Klipsch. They're a bit flashy for our decor; a bit pricey to boot. And my wife wants to know why I need to buy more speakers when I have about 50 (in various states of disrepair) up in the attic.

She has a point.

So I'm thinking I can clean up a pair of Old Large Advents for use as front right and left speakers. I have about a half dozen thrift store find Baby Advents for surround, more than a few pairs of Advent Minis to mount near the ceiling for Dolby Atmos, and I think I can fit a Smaller Advent beneath the TV for use as a center channel.

I'm starting to sense a theme...

I love the sound of the Old Large Advents and I hear that the Smaller Advents are supposed to sound almost identical. (I can't speak from experience until I refoam mine.)

I'm already on the lookout for a sub or two which may or may not be Advent. (No need to get carried away!)

I'm gonna have to run these speakers with a Denon AVR-X4100W; a mid level model of theirs circa 2015. It supports 4K, offers 125 watts per channel, and is Dolby Atmos capable. (I could buy a newer model with far better specs and since all these Denon AVRs look almost exactly the same my wife would never know I'd switched it out but then I'd feel guilty every time I noticed the subtle yet sweet sound improvements between it and its predecessor.) Plus I'd have to watch the ring camera like a hawk to be sure I got there first on any large box deliveries. Since Covid it looks like a freight dock out there.

Anyway is this vintage Atmos home theater thing a crazy idea?

My plan is to give it a try and document the process here for future reference to anyone that may want to take on a similar project. In exchange I'm hoping that a few of you HT guys more knowledgeable than myself can weigh in with your thoughts.

Before I ask my questions to anyone that's still reading please let's consider the room. It's an open living area and not a dedicated theater space. It's only about 12' X 15' but both sides are open to adjoining rooms; one open about 1/3 the length of the wall (last pic), the other about 2/3 open (not shown.) Lots of area is covered by bookshelves and oak woodwork. Ceiling is nine feet, walls are plaster, floor is oak. Books in the shelves would help but I fear this room is gonna have some resonance issues. As you can see a nice piece of crown molding runs about 14" beneath the ceiling line. Looks like a good spot to mount the Atmos speakers to me. I've already completed the wiring for this but that's about all I've done so far.

Front "TV" Wall (Note: TV can't be centered due to the door opening)...


Back "Sofa" Wall...


Side "Surround/Atmos" wall (Other side not shown)...


And so my initial questions are:

1. Have any of you tried using a single floor standing speaker as a center channel? It should match the left and right nicely which is a plus but how will it compare to a speaker designed to be a center channel? Personally, I much prefer the sound of a vintage Advent with it's 12' woofer and closed box to any of those long soundbar tubes with a bunch of 5 1/4" woofers and a port. But that doesn't mean an old Advent will make a better center channel. And do you think it'll be OK to place it on it's side so it doesn't block the TV? I've read some thoughts here on AK regarding laying large speakers on their side but there isn't much of a consensus. I figure so long as the tweeter is close to ear level I should be good to go but I'm not super confident on this.

2. How centered does a center channel need to be? I'm guessing I won't like it if the dialogue appears to be coming for the left a bit but I'm working with what I've got here and the door on the left side of the "TV" wall means I may have to get creative. The TV definitely won't be centered. Should I try to center the speakers to the room or the TV?

3. Finally, if anyone has any thoughts on any of Advents dedicated center channels I'd love to hear them. Is there a good one out there? If so I'd explore using it instead of laying a floor stander on its side. I think all of their center channels were made after Advent sold out to Jensen and most probably after a Chinese company bought Jensen. But the Baby Advent II's are Jensen era and I really like them so who knows?

If you have opinions on these questions or any other overall ideas for me at this early stage in my home theater design process please let me know. I think I'll probably just have to figure much of this out through trial and error but a few nudges now in the right direction could save me a lot of time.

Thanks,

Brando

 

[swechsler]

I think it's a great idea. I have done the same thing in my theater with Infinity speakers from the late 80s and early 90s. I also planned to do it with EPIs from the 70s but never got around to it.

1. Not a floorstanding speaker, but I have used non-center mini (and slightly larger) speakers as centers. They work well. Placing the speaker on its side is something you'll have to test to see how it sounds relative to the left/right speakers. But I think it will be fine.
2. Pretty close. In my bedroom system, at one point my center speaker (an NHT SB1) was about 12"-18" to the right of center and you could definitely hear a difference. Moving it within 6" of center made it better. This was with a 65" screen at about 10' away, with the main speakers to the immediate left and right of the screen. A larger system will probably allow a larger delta.
3. I don't know if there was ever an Advent center, but if there was, it would not bear any resemblance to the classic Advents that you have (since Advent had changed hands between the time your speakers were made and the time that surround sound started becoming popular), and therefore would not be any better than using a random center speaker from any manufacturer.

 

[donprice]

Hook it up and give it a try. Spend some time getting it set up through Audyssey and dialed in. Add some subs and you may be very happy without having to go speaker shopping...for a while

 

[damacman]

I like everything except ... you got the TV in the wrong location. Reverse the layout so that the TV and L, C, R are on the wall with the windows.

 

[Calrissian]

I think it's a great idea. I have done the same thing in my theater with Infinity speakers from the late 80s and early 90s. I also planned to do it with EPIs from the 70s but never got around to it.

1. Not a floorstanding speaker, but I have used non-center mini (and slightly larger) speakers as centers. They work well. Placing the speaker on its side is something you'll have to test to see how it sounds relative to the left/right speakers. But I think it will be fine.
2. Pretty close. In my bedroom system, at one point my center speaker (an NHT SB1) was about 12"-18" to the right of center and you could definitely hear a difference. Moving it within 6" of center made it better. This was with a 65" screen at about 10' away, with the main speakers to the immediate left and right of the screen. A larger system will probably allow a larger delta.
3. I don't know if there was ever an Advent center, but if there was, it would not bear any resemblance to the classic Advents that you have (since Advent had changed hands between the time your speakers were made and the time that surround sound started becoming popular), and therefore would not be any better than using a random center speaker from any manufacturer.

[/QUOTE

Nice to hear that someone else has done something somewhat similar. I think I'll just have to test an old Advent out as a center and see what I think. Since the sound from a speaker generally appears to come from the tweeter, I fear that taking a large speaker having the tweeter near its top may push the sound too far to one side when you lay it down. I'm just hoping to come up with something that sounds good and doesn't look strange and off center.

And I'm guessing you're right about the Advent center channels. Research tells me that the Advent HT-103 was a pretty high dollar center in its time but it is designed like most centers (ported with a few little drivers and a tweeter) and it probably won't sound like 70's Advents at all. If one were to fall in my lap I'd give it a try but I don't think it's worth chasing one down.

Thanks for the input.

-Brando

 

[Calrissian]

I like everything except ... you got the TV in the wrong location. Reverse the layout so that the TV and L, C, R are on the wall with the windows.

I considered this as it would eliminate the off-center issue completely. But it would mean moving the couch out away from the wall with the door and that doesn't work well with the flow of the house. If I could make this a dedicated home theater room it would be the way to go but my wife isn't nearly as interested in blasting movies and music as I am (she's more of a quiet zen kind of person) so I'm trying to keep the impact of the TV and speakers to a minimum. The TV I ordered is a Samsung 75 "The Frame." It's probably overpriced considering the specs but I think she'll appreciate that fact that it looks at least a little bit like a piece of wall art when it's not in use.

-Brando

 

[swechsler]

Advent HT-103 was a pretty high dollar center in its time

Actually I don't think that's the case. If memory serves, those are the sort of speakers that were sold at warehouse clubs back then (I have both an Advent subwoofer and a couple of pairs of Advent outdoor speakers, all purchased at one of the various wholesale clubs in the early 2000s). Listenable, but nothing approaching high-dollar.

 

[Spitfirejoe]

I put together an Advent system for my daughter. Big Onkyo AVR for power and control. Laureates for the mains, minis for the surrounds and a mini on it's side for the center. All used gear that I refurbed. Sounded great, but was too large for her liking. They went with a JBL sound bar instead. That had moveable surrounds, works pretty well, and takes up a lot less space. I found an Audio Technica TT with a built in pre-amp that plugs into an aux in on the sound bar, and they are happy.

Big system went to my brother in a big room and is getting good use.

Hard to find a good Advent center on the used market. You could always use Advent guts in a different cabinet, but it would take some work. The mini on it's side worked well but looked kinda odd.

I think I like @damacman 's suggestions above. However, your space is limited and you may find the gear takes up too much room. Especially with Atmos speakers and subs added in to the mix. I tkink you should try some "experimental" set-ups and see what works for you.

LOVE "The Frame"!!

 

[Beatnik]

Put a comfy chair with ottoman on the door wall with the one tv above. Put a sofa in front of the window area for watching that. Install a pull down screen on the flat area above the window and buy a projector.

Sit in your comfy chair and enjoy big screen atmos. Wife can watch tv from couch.

 

[Spitfirejoe]

By the way, my own system is classic Infinity stuff. Qb's for mains, Infinitesimal Four's for surrounds and I found an Infinitessimal Four center channel. EMIT's baby!! Sub is in Infinity BU-1. It's in a very small bedroom, but it works well for no more than two people at a time.

 

[lattiboy]

I run a 3.2 vintage system. Mains are Infinity Renaissance 80s, center is a Boston acoustics VR12, and 2. Infinity SUBR12s. Ran audyssey on my Denon 3600H and it’s fantastic.

I’ve never understood the line between home theater and stereo listening. IMO, it’s completely artificial as a lot of high quality vintage stuff with some DSP will trash newer, high end systems. Subwoofers are really the one thing I wouldn’t go vintage for. I’ve had more sub amp failures than any other type of equipment even though I’ve owned relatively few.

 

[Calrissian]

I'm thinking lattiboy is dead on in saying that you can use vintage stereo speakers and get great results in a home theater system. It sounds like quite a few people have figured out how to do it. I do plan on subs from at least say the 90's on and I'm still not sure about the center channel but I'm just gonna have to test some things out. There's nothing worse than struggling to hear voices clearly during a movie. I suppose just having a dedicated center so you can adjust volume separately is a big plus regardless of the speaker. I need to do some more re-foaming so I can do some more speaker testing. One thing about old Advents; they always have foam rot.

Thanks for the ideas everyone and I'll add more pics as I go.

-Brando

 

[whoaru99]

In certain situations "theater speakers", probably bearing some THX qualifications or having certain dispersion characteristics may be in order.

However, in a more general sense good speakers are good speakers and if they're a good speaker they work good for music and or good for HT.

Far as a center speaker being HT specific, the typical horizontal design is to facilitate placement where it fits in most home HT systems; above or below the TV without blocking it. In pretty much all other regards it's actually a compromise in performance relative to a conventional speaker.

 

[lattiboy]

I'm thinking lattiboy is dead on in saying that you can use vintage stereo speakers and get great results in a home theater system. It sounds like quite a few people have figured out how to do it. I do plan on subs from at least say the 90's on and I'm still not sure about the center channel but I'm just gonna have to test some things out. There's nothing worse than struggling to hear voices clearly during a movie. I suppose just having a dedicated center so you can adjust volume separately is a big plus regardless of the speaker. I need to do some more re-foaming so I can do some more speaker testing. One thing about old Advents; they always have foam rot.

Thanks for the ideas everyone and I'll add more pics as I go.

-Brando

I would highly recommend a VR12 if you can find one. Massive bastard that throws a soundstage like you’ve never heard. I have a massive 120” screen and it manages to fill that gap. Make sure you get a large 3-way center, and I think you’ll be fine.

 

[Inscrutable]

Somewhere I have seen a review that was surprisingly pleased running 2.2.2 Atmos (2 L/R + 2 atmos add-ons + 2 subs). Would help with your clutter and cost.

 

[Calrissian]

Somewhere I have seen a review that was surprisingly pleased running 2.2.2 Atmos (2 L/R + 2 atmos add-ons + 2 subs). Would help with your clutter and cost.

I've got some center channels just about restored so I can test them out but, yeah, I should also give it a go with no center at all. I've read that the soundstage tends to move off-center for anyone not sitting directly in front of the screen when you don't have a center channel. I'd also probably miss not being able to independently turn the volume up and down on the center channel. (Such as when the dialogue is getting drowned out for some reason.) I've already finished the restore on a bunch of Advent minis for use as surrounds but if I don't figure out the center I could also try 4.4.2.

 

[Calrissian]

Here are the finished Advent minis. I documented the restore over in the DIY section.

I went with a lighter colored grill cloth as I plan to match these with the Large Advents I'm refinishing. The ones finished in original black cloth are extra as I'm only going with 4 of these minis for use as Atmos speakers.

Right now I think my speaker lineup will look like this:

Left Front and Right Front (Stereo): Large Advent x2
Center: The Smaller Advent
Left Surround and Right Surround: Baby Advent II x2
Atmos (Top FL, Top FR, Top BL, Top BR): Advent Mini x4
Subwoofers: Miller & Kressel V125 x2

So it looks like 5.4.2 will win out unless something sounds better once I have everything finished and I can test things out together. The M&K subs are nice vintage 12" powered subs I came across. I plan to make them into end tables so they'll fit. I wanted to stick with Advent but I'm not sure they ever made a decent sub (someone is probably gonna prove me wrong on this)

 

[Beatnik]

I had a passive advent sub, never tried it, so can't say if it was decent or not.