If I was using a VHF outdoor antenna for FM, how many gangs would be be optimal
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OvenMaster
Baby, you're my winterblue
Any decent Hi-Fi tuner as we discuss on the forums here will more than likely have a minimum of two or three. IMHO, what's more important in your situation is the amount of obstructions, such as local buildings and terrain, as well as how high up the antenna is mounted. 50mi/80km is a piece of cake if you're on flat land with nothing in the way, no matter what tuner you'd put into service. I live in a valley, and 50mi/80km to my east is absolutely impossible, but up and down the valley, 80mi/126km is easy.
Another issue is polarization of the FM signal as compared to the VHF TV signal. I don't know about Oz, but in the States, horizontal polarization is used for TV, and both vertical and horizontal polarization is used for FM, so that's why the TV antennas here can be used with some success.
Tom
Another issue is polarization of the FM signal as compared to the VHF TV signal. I don't know about Oz, but in the States, horizontal polarization is used for TV, and both vertical and horizontal polarization is used for FM, so that's why the TV antennas here can be used with some success.
Tom
I don't know about Polarization but I have had even a cheap tuner wired in while waiting for my Marantz to arrive and I can pull stations strongly and clearly.
Apparently My tuner has 3 FM gangs in it so I guess/hope it can pull abit. The area I live in isn't exactly high up but it certainly isn't in a valley either - it's flat enough.
I wonder how much I could pull if I had that Kenwood tuner with the 9 gangs :scratch2: :scratch2:
Apparently My tuner has 3 FM gangs in it so I guess/hope it can pull abit. The area I live in isn't exactly high up but it certainly isn't in a valley either - it's flat enough.
I wonder how much I could pull if I had that Kenwood tuner with the 9 gangs :scratch2: :scratch2:
OvenMaster
Baby, you're my winterblue
The stations in Sydney should be pretty easy, and being an outdoor antenna should get rid of all if not most of the noise and give you full FM quieting if I believe Google Maps. :yes:.
Yeah, I guess. I didn't want to bamboozle you with Australian cities but I guess anyone who's anyone knows Sydney. I should be able to pull Sydney stations pretty easily, but there are some stations in a place called Newcastle I want to get which is about 100/110Km away. I guess time will tell when I receive the Marantz.
Lefty
Super Member
The extra tuner gangs in a FM tuner allows for improvements in two areas, sensitivity and front-end selectivity. 4 or more gangs usually means there are two RF amplifier stages before the mixer and accounts for the better sensitivity they have because of this increased RF gain. However having a outdoor antenna mounted proberly and pointing to the station of interest can increase the signal as much as adding a gang/RF amp stage.
So it kind of matters on specific details of your tuner and your location and the station of interest(s) but having a good outdoor antenna is the single best thing an FM fan can do for themself. Even a top of the line tuner worth thousands of dollars can sound like #$%^ if not given a proper signal level, and noise free stereo reception just means even a stronger received signal is required. $$ for $$ antenna upgradings is the most effective improvement method going for FM. An FM only antenna rather then a broad band VHF TV type antenna would be a great next step for you and a rotator if you don't already have one and your stations are from different directions.
Lefty
So it kind of matters on specific details of your tuner and your location and the station of interest(s) but having a good outdoor antenna is the single best thing an FM fan can do for themself. Even a top of the line tuner worth thousands of dollars can sound like #$%^ if not given a proper signal level, and noise free stereo reception just means even a stronger received signal is required. $$ for $$ antenna upgradings is the most effective improvement method going for FM. An FM only antenna rather then a broad band VHF TV type antenna would be a great next step for you and a rotator if you don't already have one and your stations are from different directions.
Lefty
Lefty
Super Member
DaWoofer said:
I few do. My usually rule to go by for Receivers is:
3 gangs = bottom line models
4 gangs = mid models
5 gangs = top of the line models, not sure if any receivers every had more then 5 gang air capacitors?
Separate tuners followed the same, but in addition a few top of the line separate tuners did include more then 5 gangs. Adding gangs and the associated circuitry is a costly addition so there is good reason why higher gang count is coveted.
Lefty
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Paul C
Super Member
50mi/80km is a piece of cake if you're on flat land with nothing in the way, no matter what tuner you'd put into service.
I have a fairly nice tuner, a rooftop antenna (Radio Shack/Antennacraft FM-6), and live in a flat coastal plain... and I can easily pick up FM stations 100-120 miles away. I can regularly pick up two 6,000 watt stations that are about 100 miles away, but they are in an area where it is hilly, and their antennas are on masts on the tops of hills. 50 kw stations are a piece of cake. The stations I listen to most are in the 65-70 mile range.
More gangs will help in selectivity, that is, picking up a weak distant station which is on an adjacent frequency to a strong local station.
My tuners and receivers (1980's era) have all had new low loss Murata filters installed, replacing the old lossy filters. This helped quite a bit, too.
I have a fairly nice tuner, a rooftop antenna (Radio Shack/Antennacraft FM-6), and live in a flat coastal plain... and I can easily pick up FM stations 100-120 miles away. I can regularly pick up two 6,000 watt stations that are about 100 miles away, but they are in an area where it is hilly, and their antennas are on masts on the tops of hills. 50 kw stations are a piece of cake. The stations I listen to most are in the 65-70 mile range.
More gangs will help in selectivity, that is, picking up a weak distant station which is on an adjacent frequency to a strong local station.
My tuners and receivers (1980's era) have all had new low loss Murata filters installed, replacing the old lossy filters. This helped quite a bit, too.
dr.ido
Well-Known Member
At my old house in Springvale (SE suburbs of Melbourne) I could pick up various country area stations easily with most of the tuners I tried connected to the VHF/UHF antenna I used for TV prior to getting cable. It was just a cheap antenna on a gutter mount pointed towards the Melbourne TV stations. None of the tuners used were anything special other than a Technics ST-9030 (8 gangs). I can't say how much difference the 8 gangs in the ST-9030 helped. When I didn't find anything I wanted to listen to I lost interest and didn't make any real comparisons between the different tuners.
The discontinued TV channels 3, 4 and 5 are in the FM band. If your VHF antenna is old enough that it was cut for these channels it should work as well as proper FM antenna.
If you're no longer using that antenna for TV point it directly at the stations you are interested in for a better signal. If the antenna was installed with open feeder or ribbon cable rewiring it with a decent balun and coax cable may be worthwhile.
The discontinued TV channels 3, 4 and 5 are in the FM band. If your VHF antenna is old enough that it was cut for these channels it should work as well as proper FM antenna.
If you're no longer using that antenna for TV point it directly at the stations you are interested in for a better signal. If the antenna was installed with open feeder or ribbon cable rewiring it with a decent balun and coax cable may be worthwhile.
I don't know if American's have this type of VHF antenna but it's generally called a Box-shape antenna. It's about 17 years old and in good condition. Whether it helps or not, It's wired through a 24dB gain booster.
I'll have to wait until I get the tuner to see what kind of connection type it has for a antenna. I never did like 300ohm ribbon cable much, I hope it can accomodate a 75ohm wire or plug.
I'll have to wait until I get the tuner to see what kind of connection type it has for a antenna. I never did like 300ohm ribbon cable much, I hope it can accomodate a 75ohm wire or plug.
Dunnoabout down under, but up here all rooftop I've seen antennas are 300 ohm
...and are fed thru a weatherproof balun at the antenna to accomodate that 75 ohm coaxial cable.
But, the good news is that unless external noise is a problem, 300 ohm has less loss than a similar length of coaxial. I use 300 ohm foamed twinlead from the antenna into the house where I convert it to 75 ohms for distribution to several locations.
...and are fed thru a weatherproof balun at the antenna to accomodate that 75 ohm coaxial cable.
But, the good news is that unless external noise is a problem, 300 ohm has less loss than a similar length of coaxial. I use 300 ohm foamed twinlead from the antenna into the house where I convert it to 75 ohms for distribution to several locations.
dr.ido
Well-Known Member
TV channels are allocated differently in the US and Australia. In Australia TV channels 3,4 and 5 which are now discontinued occupied from 86.25MHz to 107.75MHz. An 17 year old antenna should still cover 3, 4 and 5 as not all stations had moved to UHF by then.
Ribbon cable degrades quickly around here. In good condition it may be less lossy than coax, but if it's been up there for 17 years it's probably been falling apart.
Ribbon cable degrades quickly around here. In good condition it may be less lossy than coax, but if it's been up there for 17 years it's probably been falling apart.
I agree with what has already been said. Most important is the directionality of the antenna or it's ability to ignore unwanted signals. Hence the importance of a rotator. If you only listen to strong stations in one direction then the fixed vhf tv antenna should be fine with the st400.
I find that 4&5 gang tuners are 'generally' quieter than 3 gangers given the same signal. When the signal is low, the extra gangs and rf amps really help. This all depends on the state of repair of the tuner of course.
I find that 4&5 gang tuners are 'generally' quieter than 3 gangers given the same signal. When the signal is low, the extra gangs and rf amps really help. This all depends on the state of repair of the tuner of course.
Sluggo
Super Member
Good thread you guys,Very informative Lefty!
Hey,Dr.ido-I remember as a kid,Living in Footscray,
We use to listen to the Footscray Bulldog Australian
Rules football matches on the radio.I loved it!
Are sports on radio still a big thing downunder???
To contribute to the thread-I have a RS Yagi antenna on a
30' pole,bracketed to the eves of my roof,which I manually
turn for the desired station.I live 45 miles from Seattle,
60 miles from Vancouver Canada and with a 4 gang
receiver pick up most stations in stereo.My 5 gang
tuner,Im picking up weak college stations from all over.
Being able to rotate the antenna is Crucial I beleive.
Mark
Hey,Dr.ido-I remember as a kid,Living in Footscray,
We use to listen to the Footscray Bulldog Australian
Rules football matches on the radio.I loved it!
Are sports on radio still a big thing downunder???
To contribute to the thread-I have a RS Yagi antenna on a
30' pole,bracketed to the eves of my roof,which I manually
turn for the desired station.I live 45 miles from Seattle,
60 miles from Vancouver Canada and with a 4 gang
receiver pick up most stations in stereo.My 5 gang
tuner,Im picking up weak college stations from all over.
Being able to rotate the antenna is Crucial I beleive.
Mark
dr.ido
Well-Known Member
I just hooked up the outdoor antenna here for the first time since moving in a week ago. Reception here is not as good as at my old place. I used to be able to get strong reception of the local stations with the proverbial wet piece of string. Here a wire dipole only got me noisy and often mono reception of local stations.
The setup here is less than optimal at the moment. 30 meters of RG6 that shares a conduit with an ethernet cable runs to the front house (I am in the rear unit) where it connects to the existing rooftop VHF/UHF antenna (the front house no longer uses it for TV). This is connected to a DVB-T set top box, the loop through output from the set top box is connected to the antenna input on the receiver (currently a Sherwood RV-5030R I'm playing to see if surround is worth bothering with, I doubt it's tuner is anything special).
No country stations this time around. I did get a couple of low power community stations I haven't heard before. It is good enough for noise free reception of the stations I care about so I doubt I'll bother putting up my own antenna (which would mean a much shorter cable run). I'll try again when I hook up a better tuner.
SLUGGO: I don't really follow sport, so I don't know if the coverage is better or worse now. Triple M has added football games and a sports talk program, but they are still a rock station. 3UZ has been all sports for a long time now, I don't even remember what their previous format was. Cricket is still on various ABC stations and the football is still on 3AW.
The setup here is less than optimal at the moment. 30 meters of RG6 that shares a conduit with an ethernet cable runs to the front house (I am in the rear unit) where it connects to the existing rooftop VHF/UHF antenna (the front house no longer uses it for TV). This is connected to a DVB-T set top box, the loop through output from the set top box is connected to the antenna input on the receiver (currently a Sherwood RV-5030R I'm playing to see if surround is worth bothering with, I doubt it's tuner is anything special).
No country stations this time around. I did get a couple of low power community stations I haven't heard before. It is good enough for noise free reception of the stations I care about so I doubt I'll bother putting up my own antenna (which would mean a much shorter cable run). I'll try again when I hook up a better tuner.
SLUGGO: I don't really follow sport, so I don't know if the coverage is better or worse now. Triple M has added football games and a sports talk program, but they are still a rock station. 3UZ has been all sports for a long time now, I don't even remember what their previous format was. Cricket is still on various ABC stations and the football is still on 3AW.