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Imaging and Soundstage question - My setup seems like a W mix

JeffNTaxes

JeffNTaxes

Active Member
My Snell Type D's are good sounding speakers, but the imaging/soundstage I'm getting sitting at the top of the equilateral triangle seems to be focused like a mixing engineer would call a "W" mix. Good L and R and middle, but a little hollow at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock. The sides of the triangle are 9' each based on the space I have available.

When I lean forward about 3-4 feet the imaging improves significantly and fills in. But that's not a comfortable sitting position, it's too close.

Any opinions on what's going on here, and how to rectify? I can't sit 4 feet from my amp.

The entire system specs are in my signature.

Thanks
 
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Toe your speakers out a few degrees at a time. The tweeters and midrange are crossing out in front of you.

I use laser levels (see Amazon link below) and aim the speaker tweeters so they cross a foot or so behind my head. You can adjust from there.

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Confused, you answered your own question. You said it sounds better if you move, but you can't move. Move your speakers to where they sound good in your seating position.

I got a laser pointer for my cat, used that to align my speakers.
 
Move the speakers a bit closer together and toe them in some.

"When I lean forward about 3-4 feet the imaging improves significantly and fills in. But that's not a comfortable sitting position, it's too close."

This may be because the back of the couch/chair relative to your ears is having a major influence on the sound. I can lean forward on my couch and it is like listening to a whole different set of speakers with so much more midrange detail/clarity and less bass.
 
toddalin said:
Move the speakers a bit closer together and toe them in some.

"When I lean forward about 3-4 feet the imaging improves significantly and fills in. But that's not a comfortable sitting position, it's too close."

This may be because the back of the couch/chair relative to your ears is having a major influence on the sound. I can lean forward on my couch and it is like listening to a whole different set of speakers with so much more midrange detail/clarity and less bass.
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This was my finding last night. I tested it out and it holds up. When I slouch and the fat chair cushion is behind my head it loses 3D. Guess I need to sit up.
 
Question:

Is your sitting space against a wall? Or does the couch or chair sit out in the middle of the room or at least a few feet away from the back wall?

You describe a triangle but not the room. Are the speakers close to the side walls? Back wall? Snell type D have a rear port. And do you have high ceilings?

You’re experiencing phase cancellations in certain areas of the room and that is greatly affected by the room and not just the way the speakers are towed
 
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If that’s the case then what they’re all telling you is good advice, really just play around with positioning and focus if you and the speakers are relatively in free air space. Maybe for the snells they’re just a little too far apart. Could be towing them. Playing around with positioning and sitting down and listening again is part of what I like about speakers, tbh
 
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JeffNTaxes said:
I'm getting sitting at the top of the equilateral triangle seems to be focused like a mixing engineer would call a "W" mix. Good L and R and middle, but a little hollow at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock. The sides of the triangle are 9' each based on the space I have available.
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JeffNTaxes said:
Chair is about 1/3 of the room out from the wall, speakers are 5' from from front wall and 4' from side walls.
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Looks like you have some space to work with which is good - sometimes even small changes can make a big difference. Couple of suggestions to try:

1. Try moving your chair back a foot or so while leaving the speakers as they are. I've had best results with the chair about 1.1 to 1.2 times the width of the speakers. Every room is different so YMMV.

2. Try moving the speakers closer together leaving the chair as it is. Three to six inches each might tell you something. If you can, avoid having the distance from the front wall and side walls the same. (Right now you're 5' from the front and 4' from the sides which is good. If the speakers were 5' from both the front and side walls, they'll be reinforcing the same frequency.)

If either of those seem promising, then you can lay down some masking tape on the floor marked in one inch increments and start dialing things in. I've used this method with good results: Sumiko Master Speaker Set. If your room is symmetrical, you can work to set one speaker and then duplicate the positioning for the other to save some time.
 
dcmfan said:
Looks like you have some space to work with which is good - sometimes even small changes can make a big difference. Couple of suggestions to try:

1. Try moving your chair back a foot or so while leaving the speakers as they are. I've had best results with the chair about 1.1 to 1.2 times the width of the speakers. Every room is different so YMMV.

2. Try moving the speakers closer together leaving the chair as it is. Three to six inches each might tell you something. If you can, avoid having the distance from the front wall and side walls the same. (Right now you're 5' from the front and 4' from the sides which is good. If the speakers were 5' from both the front and side walls, they'll be reinforcing the same frequency.)

If either of those seem promising, then you can lay down some masking tape on the floor marked in one inch increments and start dialing things in. I've used this method with good results: Sumiko Master Speaker Set. If your room is symmetrical, you can work to set one speaker and then duplicate the positioning for the other to save some time.
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Good stuff, thanks. I've been doing basically this for a week and I'm getting there. This is the fun part.
 
Wondering if you made any progress. This video popped up for me and I was reminded of the conversation. Some interesting techniques here.

 
CJ Payne said:
Wondering if you made any progress. This video popped up for me and I was reminded of the conversation. Some interesting techniques here.

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I did, thanks. I moved the speakers out more from the wall and toed in very slightly. I think slouching with the padded seat behind my ears has a lot to do with it too
 
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