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In a JBL mood

I get ya on how they can sound played loud. While the PCA gives them solid bottom end, (not bloated) here is something that surprised me.

I have driven my 4435’s with many amps from the little Crown D45 all the way up to the Crown I-TECH 5000HD and while the little amps certainly wont help them be all that they can be, what made a real difference in how loud they will play and still sound great, was the use of a Bryston DAC. It hardly if at all changed the sound character down low but I can listen to them with great pleasure considerably louder than before.

I get that it’s not all about loud but these speakers will pick on your front ends deficiencies.

Have fun witu them. I love mine.

Barry.
 
Jayrosc said:
Just touching base after a couple weeks. Confirming that I love my JBL's but that the L110's continue to be the winner. Just so damned balanced.
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There was a pair on the local CL about a month ago for a pretty reasonable price that I was sorely tempted to buy just so I could see what they sounded like. Thats two pairs of JBLs in the last three months I would have like to check out.One of these days.......
 
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I like to hear the word balance and JBL used together. So many times I read about enthusiasts that buy a vintage set of JBL's and then complain about how they sound. There not enough bass. Its sounds tinny. Then they start with the mods before they ever even listen to them. Rebuild or change out the crossovers. Add a sub or change out the speakers themselves convinced that somethings wrong with them. They forget that let's say L-100's came from high end studio monitor speakers. They are engineered for balanced true reproduction of sound. Not to thump so loud your neighbors get to enjoy it too. Now, let me say there's NOTHING wrong with this. I spent a ton of money puting one of these systems into my Corvette for just this purpose. And I love it. Get fun. But I bought my vintage system to hear a different type of sound. Yes, I am a purest. With my L-100's I have heard things in my music that I have been listening to for 40 years that I have never heard before. True, not high bass response but so clear and sweet that sometimes I go WOW, I did'nt know there was a keyboard in there too. Sorry about the rant. It's just something that's been on my mind for a while. Every time I read about someone making changes to a piece that's not broken but just because they can. Read the ads. Vintage speakers that's been recapped and gone threw so there worth more. Really? Why?
 
Wolfman181 said:
They forget that let's say L-100's came from high end studio monitor speakers. They are engineered for balanced true reproduction of sound.
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This is simply not true. Going way back, before the era of JBL being common in the studio, speakers like the Altec 604e were king. These speakers were not particularly flat, but they had a specific response curve that was known and had essentially become the industry standard for control room mixing. When JBL released the 4310 "Control Monitor" (which the 4311, L100, etc are based on), they designed it NOT to be balanced or to have a flat response, but rather, they designed it to mimic the response of the industry standard Altec 604e and do it in a much smaller package. This is largely where the "Control Monitor" vs "Studio Monitor" terminology comes from. A "Control Monitor" is designed to have a specific sound, that isn't necessarily flat, while a "Studio Monitor" is indeed designed to have a flat, neutral, balanced sound. An L100 will not sound anything like a Studio Monitor. Compare it against an actual studio monitor like a 4411 or 4412 and it will be obvious quickly. I'm not saying that to knock the L100; it has a big mid-bass peak that I think actually sounds good.
 
Wolfman181 said:
Everyone has their own opinion. To say that an opinion is not true is well. I thank you for your opinion and information.
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Except it wasn't stated as an opinion, it was stated as a fact. And as Chris explained, it wasn't a factual statement.

Chris Brown said:
This is simply not true. Going way back, before the era of JBL being common in the studio, speakers like the Altec 604e were king. These speakers were not particularly flat, but they had a specific response curve that was known and had essentially become the industry standard for control room mixing. When JBL released the 4310 "Control Monitor" (which the 4311, L100, etc are based on), they designed it NOT to be balanced or to have a flat response, but rather, they designed it to mimic the response of the industry standard Altec 604e and do it in a much smaller package. This is largely where the "Control Monitor" vs "Studio Monitor" terminology comes from. A "Control Monitor" is designed to have a specific sound, that isn't necessarily flat, while a "Studio Monitor" is indeed designed to have a flat, neutral, balanced sound. An L100 will not sound anything like a Studio Monitor. Compare it against an actual studio monitor like a 4411 or 4412 and it will be obvious quickly. I'm not saying that to knock the L100; it has a big mid-bass peak that I think actually sounds good.
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Thanks for that. Saved me the trouble.
 
Wolfman181 said:
I like to hear the word balance and JBL used together. So many times I read about enthusiasts that buy a vintage set of JBL's and then complain about how they sound. There not enough bass. Its sounds tinny. Then they start with the mods before they ever even listen to them. Rebuild or change out the crossovers. Add a sub or change out the speakers themselves convinced that somethings wrong with them. They forget that let's say L-100's came from high end studio monitor speakers. They are engineered for balanced true reproduction of sound. Not to thump so loud your neighbors get to enjoy it too. Now, let me say there's NOTHING wrong with this. I spent a ton of money puting one of these systems into my Corvette for just this purpose. And I love it. Get fun. But I bought my vintage system to hear a different type of sound. Yes, I am a purest. With my L-100's I have heard things in my music that I have been listening to for 40 years that I have never heard before. True, not high bass response but so clear and sweet that sometimes I go WOW, I did'nt know there was a keyboard in there too. Sorry about the rant. It's just something that's been on my mind for a while. Every time I read about someone making changes to a piece that's not broken but just because they can. Read the ads. Vintage speakers that's been recapped and gone threw so there worth more. Really? Why?
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you opened a can. ;) good post! ^^

"Vintage speakers that's been recapped and gone threw so there worth more. Really? Why?"

It depends on the restoration process done. If you have never built a set of crossovers (I'm assuming you have) you (one) would know that the type of caps used can make a big difference in sound stage for the better.

Most of the time folks like to use the Dayton Caps, they are nice but wont really give you a sonic upgrade. They may clear up some harsh sounds or smooth out the top end, but not enough to say WOW now that was worth it..

I read many audio post about crossover upgrades, most folks will say they cant hear a diff. I would bet they are making a line level upgrade to there caps/shunts. Different brands can and will change the sound stage.


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This set of L-19A's I restored needed new foam, new caps, and new shunts. Cabs were covered in white spray paint from overspray, veneer needed to be worked. It's not a fast process to build the crossovers correctly. Time and effort go into measuring caps to ensure you are at the exact value. I had to order many caps to get the exact value. As you know, good caps, are not low buck. Therefore making the total value of the set greater.

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a matched set of caps was installed, this greatly improved the sound stage.

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Decade 16's crossover, I love the single cap crossovers.

Now I agree with you to an extent. some speakers with low buck caps, and a rub down with Howards feed and wax is not really a sonic upgrade.

Its exact values that will get you on point. I try to stay in the 1-3% range when I can.

For JBL use I like to use Jantzen Z-Caps Standards. They are above the cross caps, but below the silver line. Good quality yet not so bad on the bank. I think I paid a little over a bill for the caps/shunts and new binding posts for the 19A's. I gave $100 for the set prior to restore. Do you think I'd let them go for $100 bucks? No, there is time, effort, and some good quality caps installed.

You have to realize that some folks think that the value of any speaker is increased with XO work... some folks just think there vintage gear is priceless... yea... enough said LOL

Great post nonetheless.

Kind Regards,
John
 
Wolfman181 said:
I go WOW, I did'nt know there was a keyboard in there too. Really? Why?
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When I find this to be the case, it is usually because the "other speakers" that I've been listening too had a weak response or drop out in that area that was not letting this "whatever" come through. Most typically this is notable with percussion instruments (e.g., wood block).
 
toddalin said:
When I find this to be the case, it is usually because the "other speakers" that I've been listening too had a weak response or drop out in that area that was not letting this "whatever" come through. Most typically this is notable with percussion instruments (e.g., wood block).
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Alternatively, the speaker may have a peak in this area that is accenuating a portion of the signal bringing something out, maybe too much, and you just happen to enjoy that. (Louder sounds better, often even if it is an "undesirable" peak.)
 
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