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In need of lesson in Speaker Impedence

Adding the 2-ohm resistor will prevent overloading your amp. It will also change the speaker response, depending on how the speaker impedance changes with frequency. Generally it reduces the response more at frequencies where the speaker impedance is lower and less where it's higher. This generally results in some loss of damping and a peak of response at the speaker's resonant frequency. My suggestion would be to try one speaker with and without the 2 ohm resistor and see if it's OK for your ears. After all, *some* speakers that fit your budget is likely to be better than *no* speakers! If you can't stand the result, you'll have to look for a different fix.
 
I guess experimenting is a good way to go, especially since it logically shouldn't break anything permanantly. The speakers I have already are 6 ohm times 2 and 8 ohm times 2. I am not planning on buying other ones, worst case I think I will be fine at low levels running those. I may end up running two 6 ohms and two 4 ohms... but if the resistor idea will mess with the sound (not always a bad thing in itself) and not blow up the entire system for no apparent reason, I guess I'll try it. Thanks for the response.
 
Nobody's yet mentioned what a bad idea it is to have multiple sources playing the same program material in the same listening space. It's axiomatic: they interfere with each other with phase cancellations and reinforcements according to frequency and the differential distances between the multiple sources and the listener, i.e., "Comb Filtering," or "Lobing." Think "Flanging."

Not a problem, unless one cares about actually hearing the music as the professionals who made, recorded, mixed, and reproduced it intended.... :huge:
 
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Impedance and speakers

Well I think the point is lost. Impedance is not resistance, it is capacitance and inductance. So resistance formulas are meaningless in expressing how speakers react when hooked together since speakers are an impedance device - they have coils, capacitors etc.

Impedance involves voltage and current at different phases reacting differently at different frequencies. If you wire two identical speakers together you have some chance of a predictable result, but if your speakers are different, the result will be unpredictable in terms of sound and impact on the amp.

Yes, if you put two identical speakers in parallel, the impedance seen to the amp will halve, and unless the amp has high current output stages capable of driving a low impedance, I wouldn't do it.

From a sound perspective, the results are unpredictable because different speakers will have different impedances at different frequencies, so what might happen is, as an example, bass will be louder on one speaker and treble louder on the other. This is simply because the speaker with the lowest impedance at any given frequency will take more than it's share of the 'power' from the amp.

My advice is, go buy a second amp.

Regards, Len
 
I bought some speakers that have an impedence rating of 4-6 ohms "average" what does this average mean and will they work properly with an 8 ohm reciever.
 
I bought some speakers that have an impedence rating of 4-6 ohms "average" what does this average mean and will they work properly with an 8 ohm reciever.

I'll be interested to hear an answer too - sounds like a request for mind-reading to me. However, if it means "nominal", I'd guess maybe the impedance is too low for an amp rated at 8 ohms.
 
Perhaps someone can help me out with this. I have Kef 103/3 speakers which are rated at 4 Ohms.
I looked up the specs on the Marantz 2240. The Marantz 2240 is listed at 40 WPC at 8 Ohms. Does that mean the Marantz and the speakers are simply incompatible? Some of the literature out there indicates that the old Marantz's like the 2240 were rated much more stingently than later thus the unit is probably more powerful in todays terms than merely 40 WPC. Still, I can't seem to find out if delivering 40 WPC at 8 Ohms to the KEf's which operate with 4 Ohms make the system simply not a viable connection.
I say this because I do get a sound that I find to be "boxy" with very little high's and not much bass and I just would like to know if it is an issue of Ohm incompatibility or power or if I simply need the Kube (the equalizer which was made for the Kef's to equalize the sound.
I would appreciate any clarification on this issue.
Thanks,
Philip
 
Anyone hooked up their speakers for matrix surround sound as per the link shown.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.co...nd-sound.htm&url=http://kantack.com/surround/

Essentially the front speakers are hooked up conventionally, however, the rear speakers are connected one to the left + amplifier output, the other rear to the right + amplifer output and the two negative speaker terminals are connected together.
Perhaps this should be a different thread but I bring this up here because I question what the total impedance is.

That's basically what the old Quadraphonic sound was.
 
The 103/3 needs the cube to work properly, just like other speakers that use active EQ (Bose 901 for example). Without the Kube, there is no point in even discussing amp power and impedance.

If you have the Kube, by all means, hook it up!

I would think your 2240 would be a poor choice for these speakers, because it is not rated into 4 Ohms. It may play into 4 Ohms, but I think you'd be pushing the power supply.
 
I dont do math so good either...but i dont want the smoke to escape from my wires, because I know that might be bad...
on a newish sony 100wpc reciever, speakers 8-16ohm is the legend on the unit.
I now use also newish polk 40's, bookshelf speakers.
I thought to bolster the sound with some slightly larger boxes on speaker a and put the polks on b. But if the larger boxes are 6 ohm, is that a no-no, or will it work ok?
G:scratch2:
 
I have read all of this and I am still confused

I have a pair of KLH 24s and a pair of KLH 20s. The 24s are 8ohm and the 20s are 4ohm. I have both pairs hooked up to my Akai am 2600 amp which supports both 4 and 8 ohm loads using the A and B speaker connections. Can I use the A+B option safely? According to what I understand the total impedance would be 8/2 +4/2 = 6ohm when using these speakers in parallel (which is what I assume the amp does). 6 ohm falls within 4 and 8 so I would also assume that if it is truly 6 ohm then it would be ok.

Thanks for your help,

Nate
 
Your math is wishful thinking, Nate. Surely the correct formula appears elsewhere in this thread. 4 and 8 in parallel are 2.67 Ohms. Parallel is always less then the lowest value. Consumer amplifiers and receivers rarely allow paralleling speakers less than 8 Ohms each.

That's assuming your amp actually connects them in parallel when you push A+B, and that those "Nominal" impedances are minimums and occur concurrently at any specific frequency. The only way to know the actual combined impedance is to connect them together and measure the impedance curve.
 
Your math is wishful thinking. Surely the correct formula appears elsewhere in this thread. 4 and 8 in parallel are 2.67 Ohms. Parallel is always less then the lowest value. Consumer amplifiers and receivers rarely allow paralleling speakers less than 8 Ohms each.

That's assuming your amp actually connects them in parallel when you push A+B, and that those "Nominal" impedances are minimums and occur concurrently at any specific frequency. The only way to know the actual combined impedance is to connect them together and measure the impedance curve.

So the formula for the two speakers in parallel would be:

1/(1/z1 + 1/z2)

Where z1 is the impedance of one speaker and z2 is the impedance of the other.

Caution is in order with this combination. Note that the impedance rating is usually nominal. It will vary with frequency. If you factor in the crossover networks inside the speakers the math rapidly gets very complex.
 
Marantz 2220 4 channel with 4 ohm and 8 ohm speakers

I have a marantz 2220 receiver with four channel speaker hookup. One is main and the other is remote. On the main, I have MCS Series A 8290 Honey comb 3 way speakers (8 ohms). On the remote, I have Advent 2 way speakers (4 ohm).

2220 specs. are: RMS Power Per Channel 20 @ 8, or 4 ohms, 12 @ 16 ohms

I checked my marantz receiver for over heating by placing my hand on the air vents on each side for hotness and it was very cool, no heat at all coming out as far as I could feel. So with 8 ohm and 4 ohm hookups, what does that exalty mean, am I over doing it for my amp or is it ok. I don't want to burn my vintage marantz out. Thanks, Michael :scratch2:

By the way with this speaker hookup it sounds great.
 
Ouch, yeah 2.67 does sound a little low. Is it possible to put a 4 ohm resistor in series with each of the 4 ohm speakers to turn them into "8 ohm" speakers?
 
I think I'd just buy a second amp to run the second pair of speakers. Nothing is worth damaging my amp or speakers and it gives you more options to balance sound level and EQ if the speakers are dissimilar or to compensate for room dynamics.

But what do I know...

:music:
 
Pretty much any modern amp is made to work with a load range from 4 ohms to 16 ohms. Typically, people mistake the power rating (as in 100w @ 8 ohms) as an impedance requirement, generally not so.

The simple formula for combining two speakers of unequal size in parallel is -

Rt = (R1xR2)/(R1+R2) = (8x4)/(8+4) = 32/12 = 2.67 ohms

Though it is fairly obvious, we are of course talking about speakers PER CHANNEL; not how many speakers on an amp, but how many speaker on a channel with a channel being one internal amplifier of a mutli-amplifier power amp.

Others are right, there is a phase angle introduced, mostly because of the crossover, but for the most part in simple calculation like this, it is not necessary to consider.

Also, keep in mind, as I sure those of you who build speakers know, impedance is not fixed. It will typically go slightly below the rated impedance and also go noticeably above. An 8 ohm rated speakers will likely drop down to 6 or 7 ohms and will rise as high as 15 to 20 ohms.

Recently I came across a well known speaker model of a respected brand that was rated at 8 ohms nominal but had a side note that it was possible for the impedance to drop as low as 3.2 ohms.

But keep in mind that both speaker manufacturers and amplifier makers are well aware that speaker impedance is not fix and that rated impedance is 'nominal', so that knowledge is built into the building of amps.

It is virtually a standard for all modern consumer amps since the invention of the transistor amp, to be able to handle a combined single channel speaker load in the range of 4 ohms to 16 ohms. The only amps not conforming to this virtual standard are going to be cheap bargain basement crappo amps.

Any modern HiFi audiophile amp, even a low powered one is going to handle a combined speaker load of 4 ohms to 16 ohms.

I suspect amps that have a stamp on the back that says '8 ohms to 16 ohms' means two 8 ohm or two 16 ohms speakers. Stereo amps have A/B swithced, or A and B speaker connnection. For the most part we can just consider 'A' the front speakers and 'B' the rear speakers. If you use two 8 ohm speakers, one on the front left channel and one on the back left channel, the combination is 4 ohms which is the limit of the amp. Two 16's would create an 8 ohm load.

As I said, among reasonable amps, it is virtually an industry standard for each amp channel to handle a speaker load in the 4 ohm to 16 ohms range.

As to the idea of adding a 4 ohm resistor in series with a 4 ohms speaker to raise it's impedance, that will work from an electrical perspective, but not from a sound perspective. Let's say you have a 8 ohm speaker in parallel with a seried 4 ohms resistor and 4 ohms speaker. The 8 ohm speaker is going to get the full music signal, but half of that signal is going to be lost in th e 4 ohm resistor leaving only half available to your 4 ohm speaker. Better in this case to simply wire the 8 ohm and the 4 ohm speaker in series.

There are a very few comsumer amps and many commercial amps that can handle loads as low as 1 ohms, though it is unlikely you will ever have one of these to play with.


Here is my take on combined speaker impedance calculations -

On the last formula I go through the calculation keystroke by keystroke an a calculator. It looks complicated, but it's actually very easy, if you follow along with my keystrokes, you should get the hang of it quickly.

This is probably more than you want to know, but here is
how you combine the impedance of several speakers -

1.) When you are combining two speaker of equal size, they
simply divide in parallel and add in series.

- two 8 ohm speakers per channel, wired normally
(parallel)

Rt = R1/n
Rt = 8/2 = 4 ohms

Actually, this holds true for any number of equal sized
(impedance) speakers in parallel. Divide the value of a
single speaker by the total number of speakers.

three 8 ohm speakers in parallel-
Rt = 8/3 = 2.667 ohms

four 8 ohm speakers in parallel-
Rt = 8/4 = 2 ohms

- wired in series or in a chain, they add

Rt = 8 + 8 = 16 ohms

Actually, in series for any combination of sizes, they just add -

Rt = R1 + R2 + R3 + R4 + R...

a 6 ohm, an 8 ohm, and a 16 ohm in series-

Rt = 6 + 8 + 16 = 30 ohms

2.) Two speakers of unequal impedance in parallel.

Rt = (R1 X R2) / (R1 + R2)

Example: 6 ohm with 8 ohm
Rt = (6 X 8) / (6 + 8) = (48) / (14) = 3.43 Ohms

3.) Multiple speaker of unequal value in parallel

Rt = 1 / [(1/R1) + (1/R2) + (1/R3) + ...]

If you have a common calculator this is easy. Most cheap
calculators have a reciprocal key [1/x] meaning ONE
divided by 'X' where 'X' is the number.

So, using a calculator with the key strokes shown in
square brackets [] and numbers in round () brackets, here
is the sequence for 6 ohm with 8 ohms with 16 ohms -

Rt = 1/(1/6 + 1/8 + 1/16)

(6) [1/x] [+] (8) [1/x] [+] (16) [1/x] [=] [1/x]

Here is what you should see -

6 [1/x] = 0.166666666
[+]
8 [1/x] = 0.125
[+]
16 [1/x] = 0.0625
[=]
= 0.3541666666
[1/x]
= 2.824 ohms


Steve/BlueWizard
 
Nate,

I have a couple of speaker lab speakers at 6 ohm which will help bring up the ohm level. By your formula 6 ohm and 8 ohm speakers. I have the 8 ohm speakers on the main connection on back of the receiver and 6 ohm on remote: 6 ohm with 8 ohm
Rt = (6 X 8) / (6 + 8) = (48) / (14) = 3.43 Ohms
Will I be safe with this, with my marantz 2220? Just until I get a spare amp then I can put the advents back online. Thanks for your time, it has been very helpful. Michael.
 
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