Incorporating a pre-amp into my vintage receiver

[BigBogner]

Hi friends, I hope this finds you well. Lately I’ve been running my powered sub into the pre-out/main in on my Marantz 2230. I’ve really been enjoying this setup, but I’m starting to miss using my reel to reel (no second tape input), and I have been toying around with the idea of adding a CD deck as well which would require a second aux input.

I ran across a HK Citation 11 today for sale locally, and it checks all the boxes. Additional tape input and adds a second AUX. But I’m wondering if it is compatible with my current setup. Now I just have a stack of questions.

First being, is this step going to be helpful in any way other than adding inputs to my receiver? I know it’s not a traditional pre-amp to basic amplifier setup so I’m not sure what differences I can expect. Does pre-amp to a receiver make sense? Is the Marantz phono pre-amp better than HK’s?

Next, would I still be able to utilize the high pass filter built into my sub if I were to use Y-cables to split the send and return signal to the amp?

Lastly, if the Y-cables are an option, it appears the HK uses a 5-pin style plug to RCA with a positive/negative for each channel. How would I navigate that? Would white and green come back to the main input?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[spark1]

What is currently connected to the tape inputs?

An alternative solution is an RCA input selector box. Connect it to AUX, and then use it to connect your extra input components.

Does your sub require line-level input to access the high-pass filter circuit? Does you sub also allow speaker level input, and if so, is its speaker-level output filtered?

 

[sqlsavior]

Your receiver has pre-out/main-in jumpers, so you could use the Marantz as a power amp only. An alternative would be to connect the tape-out of the Citation into the aux of the Marantz, and use all of the Citation's inputs, including phono, but still use the Marantz's tuner, tone-controls, and volume knob.

 

[BigBogner]

What is currently connected to the tape inputs?

An alternative solution is an RCA input selector box. Connect it to AUX, and then use it to connect your extra input components.

My cassette deck (Akai GX725-D) to tape, and an Amazon Alexa to the Aux for steaming.

That is a solid idea, do you have one you’d recommend?

 

[spark1]

I have an old Radio Shack unit that I bought on ebay (cheap)...works well, no discernible noise or other impact on the signal.

Google RCA selector switch...lots of them out there, but I can't recommend any particular one.

 

[spark1]

Re your other questions; I would say that if both are in good shape, the preamp section of the HK is notably better than the Marantz (altho I am not a fan of slider controls).

You can connect the pre-out of the HK to the sub, and then from the sub to the main-in connections on the Marantz. Speakers connected to the Marantz. If the line out from the sub is high-pass filtered (as I assume it is), then the signal to the speakers will be filtered.

The suggestion to connect the HK to tape-in will certainly work, but in that case you are effectively using the HK just as a switch box. No problem, other than I assume it will cost quite a bit more than a simple RCA switch box.

 

[the skipper]

Are you wanting to deactivate the preamp in the receiver and just use the HK feeding the power amp in the 2230?

Give this a go.

1) remove the jumpers.

2) connect the HK to the 2230's power amp in.

3) Now, connect an interconnect from the 2230's tape out.

4) Connect the other side of that interconnect to a high level on the HK.

This will allow you to use the imput selector on the 2230 to feed into the HK. That will give you, along wit additional inputs, the use of it's tuner.

 

[BigBogner]

Re your other questions; I would say that if both are in good shape, the preamp section of the HK is notably better than the Marantz (altho I am not a fan of slider controls).

You can connect the pre-out of the HK to the sub, and then from the sub to the main-in connections on the Marantz. Speakers connected to the Marantz. If the line out from the sub is high-pass filtered (as I assume it is), then the signal to the speakers will be filtered.

The suggestion to connect the HK to tape-in will certainly work, but in that case you are effectively using the HK just as a switch box. No problem, other than I assume it will cost quite a bit more than a simple RCA switch box.

Okay, I think I follow. I would likely go with the first set up you mentioned (HK pre-out -> powered sub -> main in on Marantz) so I could utilize the high pass filter in the sub. In this setup I wouldn’t have to use the “power amplifier input”, correct? I believe that cable is missing.

 

[BigBogner]

Are you wanting to deactivate the preamp in the receiver and just use the HK feeding the power amp in the 2230?

Give this a go.

1) remove the jumpers.

2) connect the HK to the 2230's power amp in.

3) Now, connect an interconnect from the 2230's tape out.

4) Connect the other side of that interconnect to a high level on the HK.

This will allow you to use the imput selector on the 2230 to feed into the HK. That will give you, along wit additional inputs, the use of it's tuner.

So, my main objective is to add inputs (as I’ve run out) while improving sound clarity and quality if at all possible.

With the method you described, that seems to leave the sub out of the equation. Is it possible to run the powered sub in this configuration while still receiving high pass filter from the sub?

 

[spark1]

Okay, I think I follow. I would likely go with the first set up you mentioned (HK pre-out -> powered sub -> main in on Marantz) so I could utilize the high pass filter in the sub. In this setup I wouldn’t have to use the “power amplifier input”, correct? I believe that cable is missing.

You would use power amp input of the marantz. No power amp input to the HK.

I am assuming that your sub is designed to work in this way.

If primary goal is more inputs, switch box is the way to go. Using the HK, there is the potential for an improvement in sound quality...but much depends upon its condition.

 

[BigBogner]

You would use power amp input of the marantz. No power amp input to the HK.

I am assuming that your sub is designed to work in this way.

If primary goal is more inputs, switch box is the way to go. Using the HK, there is the potential for an improvement in sound quality...but much depends upon its condition.

It’s an Era Acoustics Design 5 series 200w 8” sub that is seemingly very competent. The other draw of the HK (aside from the fact that it would look very nice next to my HK T55C turntable) is that EQ.

Trying to decide if it’s worth $200...

 

[the skipper]

So, my main objective is to add inputs (as I’ve run out) while improving sound clarity and quality if at all possible.

With the method you described, that seems to leave the sub out of the equation. Is it possible to run the powered sub in this configuration while still receiving high pass filter from the sub?

Just put the sub in between the pre amp and power amp.

You should really spend some time learning the flow of the signal through the system. It'll make these answers a bit easier to comprehend.

 

[spark1]

It’s an Era Acoustics Design 5 series 200w 8” sub that is seemingly very competent. The other draw of the HK (aside from the fact that it would look very nice next to my HK T55C turntable) is that EQ.

Trying to decide if it’s worth $200...

In a quick search, I saw no mention of a high pass filter in that subwoofer. In fact, I saw no mention of line level outputs either. So now I am confused as to how you have it connected to the Marantz.

Post a pic of the back of that sub, close enough to read the labels on its connections and controls, and describe how it is connected to your Marantz receiver.

EDIT: From the one picture I could find on the interweb, the line out jacks from this sub are not active (they are blocked). And there is no info printed on the sub or in several reviews regarding a high pass filter. Addtionally, it appears that this sub was packaged as part of a home theater system with front and center speakers, rear speakers, and the sub. Such systems often assume that the customer will use his/her AVR or pre-processor to high-pass the main speakers.

Very curious as to how you have the sub connected, and why you think it has a high-pass filter built into it?

FYI...the sub does appear to provide speaker-level connections. I prefer using them, as it allows me to use the A/B speaker selector to activate/de-activate the subwoofer, which I find convenient when adjusting the sub to integrate smoothly with the main speakers.

EDIT 2: Bottom line, you can get the HK and use it without using its funky speaker connection arrangement - just connect the main speakers to the Marantz instead. Then use one preamp output from the HK to feed the Marantz "main amp in" jacks, and use either a) its other preamp output to feed the subwoofer, or b) connect the subwoofer to the B speaker terminals of the Marantz (using speaker-level connections from the subwoofer).

 

[BigBogner]

In a quick search, I saw no mention of a high pass filter in that subwoofer. In fact, I saw no mention of line level outputs either. So now I am confused as to how you have it connected to the Marantz.

Post a pic of the back of that sub, close enough to read the labels on its connections and controls, and describe how it is connected to your Marantz receiver.

EDIT: From the one picture I could find on the interweb, the line out jacks from this sub are not active (they are blocked). And there is no info printed on the sub or in several reviews regarding a high pass filter. Addtionally, it appears that this sub was packaged as part of a home theater system with front and center speakers, rear speakers, and the sub. Such systems often assume that the customer will use his/her AVR or pre-processor to high-pass the main speakers.

Very curious as to how you have the sub connected, and why you think it has a high-pass filter built into it?

FYI...the sub does appear to provide speaker-level connections. I prefer using them, as it allows me to use the A/B speaker selector to activate/de-activate the subwoofer, which I find convenient when adjusting the sub to integrate smoothly with the main speakers.

EDIT 2: Bottom line, you can get the HK and use it without using its funky speaker connection arrangement - just connect the main speakers to the Marantz instead. Then use one preamp output from the HK to feed the Marantz "main amp in" jacks, and use either a) its other preamp output to feed the subwoofer, or b) connect the subwoofer to the B speaker terminals of the Marantz (using speaker-level connections from the subwoofer).

Understandably confusing. I have the earlier iteration of this sub with line level inputs but it lacks 100w of power that the following variant got. I have it hooked up via RCA cables currently to the pre/main jumpers on the Marantz. I had it hooked up via speaker level inputs but the sub gave an awful low frequency rumble that went away when switching to RCA’s.

You are correct on that, I was wrong. No high pass filter to be found, I tested it when I got home from work today. Going to be looking into options.

 

[spark1]

The pics I saw were the 200 watt version, and it showed that its line level outputs were capped off. I assume you are using only the subwoofer's line level inputs (fed by the preamp out jacks of the Marantz).

You can purchase high pass filters, or build your own. They are relatively uncommon in subwoofers (unfortunately), altho some do have them.