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Infinity RSe problems... crossover??

Danzilla

Active Member
Okay. So picked up a pair of RSe speakers and refoamed them. Went to try them out and they sound decent... except for one of the EMIT tweeters isn't working. :( I inspected it and checked it's resistance and seemed fine. So switched EMITs between speakers and sure enough, problem stayed with the speaker. So I figure there's a problem with the crossover. I open it up and pull out the fill and find that the two coils are both hanging free. Whatever glue they were on having lost it's hold. SOoooo... I figure yeah, it's the crossover. Check all the parts I can and find no issues. I finally go back to the fuse (that I had previously visually inspected and it looks perfect) and surprise surprise, it's reading between 2.X M Ohm and 500 K Ohm. Why do I say between? Because my meter can't seem to decide. Anyone else see that before? Where the fuse is essentially blown... but still connected and can pass a tiny current? Weird. I even double checked the fuse with a magnifier and can see the filiment all the way from one end to the other with no breaks... but it still isn't working right!

So first thing... for whatever reason, there's no Amp rating on this fuse. Just BUSS AGC and 250V. Makes no sense to me as Amp rating is kinda their their main purpose! Still, the other speaker has a different brand fuse and it's labeled 250V 2A. So fine. I only have some old spare 250V 1A fuses laying around, but that's good enough to test, and sure enough, that's all it needed. They're working fine and sound good.

Now then, what do I do about the loose coils?? They definitely need some good support as they're a bit heavy .2 mH coils. I was getting ready to JB Weld another driver's magnet later this week and considered doing the coils at the same time, but don't know if that's a great idea to use with the plastic/glue already in place. I really only use JB Weld on metal usually.

Any suggestions?

IMG_0053.JPG IMG_0054.JPG IMG_0055.JPG

While I'm at it, does that crossover look right, to anyone that's worked with RSe speakers or similar Infinities? That little yellow piggyback cap in particular looks suspicious to me, like someone added it later. Not 100% sure, but looks like a tantalum cap and seems out of place with the rest. Update: I was just checking images I could find online* and there's definitely something odd with what I have. Not just the piggyback cap, but the big beige cap it's riding is different from OEM, plus the other big beige cap is complete absent in other examples I found, just like the piggyback! While I'm fine with replacing parts, like caps that have gone bad, redesigning is beyond me. I have no clue what was changed here or why. Any input would be appreciated.

Finally, though they are all working, when testing I did check ESR numbers on the caps in place and both the large beige caps (one is 6.8 K (uF?), 100V) read high. I know a good bit about basic electronics, but there's tons I don't know. Does a high equivalent series resistance necessarily mean they're bad, as I would expect if they were common polarized electrolytic caps that I'm more used to?

Thanks for sticking with me here. In the end it boils down to:
how should I best reattach the coils?
and
does that crossover look... right? If not, is there something else I should consider testing or consider replacing??

*Update question - the pictures I've found online (linked above) all have posts through the coils to help support them. Plastic or metal.. I'm not sure. Mine have none and don't look like they ever did. That likely just a design change from Infinity?
 
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Usually hot glue is used to hold crossover components, but the stuff on yours looks almost like silicone (I've never owned any Infinities of this generation). Is it soft? If not, hot glue is probably your best bet. I'd probably also add some glue to the other coils just in case.

Regarding the fuse, it sounds like the end caps may be somewhat corroded. Have you tried cleaning them? A pencil eraser, steel wool (not SOS; without soap) or extra fine sandpaper (200+ grit) should do the job. Make sure you clean off all shavings before reusing the fuse.
 
Usually hot glue is used to hold crossover components, but the stuff on yours looks almost like silicone (I've never owned any Infinities of this generation). Is it soft? If not, hot glue is probably your best bet. I'd probably also add some glue to the other coils just in case.

Regarding the fuse, it sounds like the end caps may be somewhat corroded. Have you tried cleaning them? A pencil eraser, steel wool (not SOS; without soap) or extra fine sandpaper (200+ grit) should do the job. Make sure you clean off all shavings before reusing the fuse.
'Glue' is a bit odd. More like hot glue from the feel, but looks like it was applied in one single mass almost rather than a stream. The mostly dead fuse looks perfect. Both the inside that I can see, all along the filament, and the outside of the endcaps that are shiny steel. The old spare I used to replace it looked in worse condition. Just kinda weird.

So, no crossover experts pop in to give an opinion on these modified crossovers?? :(
 
I'm listening to a pair of RSe's right now. Don't remember where I found the info but the Fuses are supposed to be 1.2A. I had to replace both when I got them and used 1A.
I am not a crossover expert but I found a Schematic for them here http://www.infinity-classics.de/technik/manuals/RSe_technical_sheet.pdf
Thanks. I've seen that one and it's not a real schematic. It shows only a single coil, single cap, and the POT. More like a simplified description of the crossover's effect. Other picture(s) I could find of the RSe crossover shows at least 3 caps, 2 coils, a power resistor, the POT, and don't forget a transformer. Thanks for the fuse tip though! I had assumed the 2A that was in the other speaker was the correct value. I'll replace them both with 1A then. EDIT: actually, from the other schematic NAD80 posted, it looks like it SHOULD be a 1.25A fuse. While I find several 1.25A glass fuses online, most are small (5 x 20mm) size. THere are a few larger AGC (6 x 30mm) sized ones though on ebay and probably elsewhere. Just FYI.
Hi Danzilla, Welcome to AK. Found this other schematic for the crossover in this thread in the infinity forum. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/infinity-qe-4-or-8-ohms.596315/#post-7861309
Thanks! That actually looks like most of the parts are accounted for... for the original crossover anyway. Still have no idea what changes the previous owner made or why. Might be able to figure it out by drawing out the modified schematic, but at the moment I'm leaning towards leaving them as is for now.
 
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Your welcome Danzilla. Please post the crossover schematic of your crossovers. I would like to see the difference between them and what had been already posted. Thanks.
 
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Your welcome Danzilla. Please post the crossover schematic of your crossovers. I would like to see the difference between them and what had been already posted. Thanks.
The pics in the first post are what I have. Compared to the schematic you linked and other pics of the crossover, changed are: the larger cap (can't see spec from top, but from schematic it should be 6.8u @ 100V), an added a 2nd cap in parallel to the first (little yellow piggyback (tantalum?) cap), and then a 3rd (visible spec 6.8K (uF?) @ 100V) that has no part in the originals I've seen. You can compare my pic to the other pic I linked to and see the differences (once you discount the shifting coils pulling my components this way and that.) It might not be easy to see what's connected where though, with just a couple perspectives. IF I do end up mapping what I have, I'll add it here**** -> PDF added, then removed. updated and added as PNG in next post.

Though, I realize now my crossover never was the same as any of the ones I've found so far, with no posts for the coils, like all the other pics I've seen have. I have to wonder if there wasn't some other design changes to the RSe crossover direct from Infinity. So I can't be sure what's a design change from Infinity or a user mod.
 
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details for the schematic for the crossover from my RSe speakers
(attached to last post as pdf, but deleted, updated, and now added below as png)

A few values were not clear and have been updated to come into line with the reference schematic NAD80 linked to.

-The large caps both read 6.8K. I was guessing uF, but that's probably wrong. 6800nF brings it inline with the 6.8 uF found in the reference schematic.
- Also, the little yellow cap C2 reads 1.75 +/- 10% 100V with no indication of mF, uF, or what. Guessed mF. Like above though, if it's uF, then we have 6.8uF in parallel with 1.75uF which gives us 8.55uF. Close match to the 8.5uF listed on the reference schematic.
- Both of my coils read 0.2mH, but the reference schematic show one 0.2 and one 2.0, so don't know what's that about.
- My C4 and C5 (the two metal cans) are 25uF each, in series so = 12.5uF?? Reference schematic shows single 25uF instead.
- Not 100% sure how the transformer legs are attached, had guessed the two unused legs are tied together like a float/ground, but from the reference, it looks almost like only one side of the transformer is being used, like an inductor.
- Couldn't find specific symbols for POT or a power resistor (is there one?)

So, I've updated my schematic now and except for having two 0.2mH coils (I triple checked the labels) instead of one 0.2 and one 2.0, and two 25uF caps in series for 12.5uF instead of the listed 25uF, most everything matches the reference schematic.
schemeit-project.png

So if we assume the two metal caps on my crossover are not the same as two metal caps on other RSe boards, that would explain the differences I kept seeing.
Where my two 20uF metal caps are in series, it seems likely the other RSe crossovers have just one for that purpose (10uF?, 25uF?) and the other metal cap then is the equivalent of my 6.8uF woofer cap that seemed extraneous on my crossover (when compared to other RSe crossover pics.)
 
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1.25 Amp is the correct replacement fuse.
Some Infinity owners are using 1 amp fuses for quicker protection of the EMIT.
 
I also have a pair of these speakers that I've owned since 2008. This thread prompted me to look at the fuses for the first time. They are 1.25 Amp.
 
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