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Infinity WATKINS WA120 woofer refoam kit

kwingylee

kwingylee

Well-Known Member
Ok guys:
For those of you that have refoamed the WA120 WATKINS woofer for the RS4.5. Whose kits did you use?
I looked at kits from Rick Cobb, Simplyspeakers and Midwest speaker repair. I found a number of inconsistencies.
From Rick Cobb:
I have the following two surround kit options for Watkins 12" woofers with 9.5", flat edge cones.

Foam surround dimensions??-????p/n #610-345F-1 @ $20.99
Inside diameter: (edge to edge)?? 9.0"
Outside diameter: (edge to edge) 11-7/16"
Inside attachment lip: 7/32" (Flat 1/4" attachment lip)
Outside attachment lip: 7/16"
Roll: 5/8"
Cone diameter: 9-1/2"


Foam surround dimensions -?? p/n #610-001-1 @ $21.99

Inside diameter: (edge to edge)?? 9.0"
Outside diameter: (edge to edge) 11-5/8"
Inside attachment?? lip: 5/16" (Flat 1/4" attachment lip)
Outside attachment?? lip: 5/16"
Roll: 3/4"
Cone diameter: 9-1/2"

From Midwest Speaker Repair. Note that its a ANGLED attachment and not flat.
Infinity 12 inch Refoam Kit (F12-4)
Price: $24.95 – $29.95

ANGLED attachment to cone.
Fits Models Watkins, RS 1.5, RS 2.5, RS 4.5, Quantum Line Source (some models), 5000A and more.
A – O.D. of the surround = 11.625″
B – Roll ends = 10.75″
C – O.D. of the cone = 9.625″
D – I.D. of the surround = 9″

From Simply speakers, the one that is listed as fitting the RS4.5 is: Infinity 12" Foam Speaker Repair Kit, Kappa 7, 8, 9, 902-3054 FSK-12Ji. Note that its listed as Angle attached:

2 x made in USA foam surrounds:
Outer diameter: 11.625" (295mm), Roll outer diameter: 10.75" (273mm), Cone diameter: 9.625" (244mm), Inner diameter: 8.75" (222mm)
Angle attach.


From The Speaker Exchange, the one following appears to be the best fit and its listed as "FLAT"!
12″ Refoam Kit Flat – RFK12 FLAT
FOAM: OD 11.625″ (295.275 mm) – ID 9.000″ (228.600 mm)
ROLL: OD 10.625″ (269.875 mm) – ID 9.375″ (238.125 mm)
Use for Infinity 902-3054, Infinity Kappa 7, Infinity Kappa 8, Infinity Kappa 9, and more. Also used for Phase Tech with styrofoam cone. Make sure we know you are ordering for this particular speaker because we will send latex instead of glue to attach foam to cone. The glue will not work for this cone.

These are significant differences between the kits. The cone edge appears to be flat but parts of the old surround is attached to the cone at a slight angle. . OD of 11.625" for the surround is ok and are common for all 4 suppliers. There are differences in the roll ends but 10.75" may work best. The WA120 Cone O.D. = 10" and not 9.625" and 9.375". I don't want to leave it to chance and appreciate all suggestions. Thanks in advance.
 
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I have had good luck with simply speakers and the have also been able to supply spiders and other NLA parts for infinity drivers.
upload_2023-2-7_7-23-38.jpeg
 
kwingylee said:
Thanks the simply speaker kit required the dust cap to be removed and VC shim?
Click to expand...

Just from my personal experience, I would recommend removing the dust cap and shimming. You really want the v.c. perfectly center on those woofers for optimum performance. Others will say just use the test tone and feel but all that will tell you is if the v.c. is rubbing or not, it won't tell you if it is perfectly centered.
 
seifreit said:
Just from my personal experience, I would recommend removing the dust cap and shimming. You really want the v.c. perfectly center on those woofers for optimum performance. Others will say just use the test tone and feel but all that will tell you is if the v.c. is rubbing or not, it won't tell you if it is perfectly centered.
Click to expand...
Is the necessity of Shimming a function of cone size? I have used the test tone approach for 10" and 12" woofers. I did have my 15" woofers professionally done
 
The guy I bought my 4.5s from refoamed them using Springfield Speaker Repair kits and used Aleens glue to attach the new surrounds.
It seems to have worked pretty well
 
For future reference:
FOAM OD FOAM ID INSIDE LIP OUTSIDE LIP ROLL ROLL OD ROLL ID CONE DIAMETER
RFK12 FLAT SPEAKER EXCHANGE 11.625 9 0.1875 0.5 0.625 10.625 9.375 9.375 FLAT
SIMPLY SPEAKERS 11.625 8.75 0.4375 0.4375 0.5625 10.75 9.625 9.625 ANGLE
610-345F-1 RCOBB 1 11.4375 9 0.21875 0.4375 0.625 10.5625 9.5 9.5 FLAT
610-001-1 RCOBB 2 11.625 9 0.3125 0.3125 0.75 10.875 9.5 9.5 FLAT
610-345-1 RCOBB 3 11.625 9 0.375 0.4375 0.625 10.75 9.625 9.625 ANGLE
F12-4 MIDWEST SPKR REPAIR 11.625 9 0.3125 0.4375 10.75 9.625 9.625 ANGLE
WA120 INFINITY / WATKINS 11.5 9 0.1875 0.4375 0.625 10.625 9.3125 10
 
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Ok folks the search is over. The kit the match’s exactly the wa120 dimensions as measured by yours truly is the simply stereo kit rfk12 angle!
I am including a excel table here to help
Future folks:
 

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Seems you've ^ done due diligence on the dimensions, what about the actual firmness or
density of the surround material?
I had some 12" Watkins in a pair of RS-2.5's at one time that appeared to have OEM
surrounds which were the softest yet compliant I've come across.
Was Infinity OEM surround material any different than what's available?
I've replaced other speakers surrounds that seemed pretty common/standard
compared to the RS-2.5's.
 
totem said:
Seems you've ^ done due diligence on the dimensions, what about the actual firmness or
density of the surround material?
I had some 12" Watkins in a pair of RS-2.5's at one time that appeared to have OEM
surrounds which were the softest yet compliant I've come across.
Was Infinity OEM surround material any different than what's available?
I've replaced other speakers surrounds that seemed pretty common/standard
compared to the RS-2.5's.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I have no way of determining that. The foam that is on the WA120 has by enlarge disintegrated...but you brought up a very important question (perhaps even the most important)/. I would expect the foam to partially impact woofer compliance. The measurements I made (I am guessing) would affect xmax. Maybe others can chimed in?
 
After a number of email exchanges with Bill Watkins, I have decided to go the DIY route using the Speaker Exchange kits. The total cost of the service including shipping and the price I paid for the speakers, makes it cost prohibitive. For those of you that wants to know, for the WA120 woofers, the cost is $115 per woofer including strengthening the magnet structure. Plus additional gaskets. Return shipping is $80-$95 per pair. This is $620 + me shipping the 4 woofers to him. We are talking $700 and change to refoam 4 12" woofers plus the risks of shipping damage. If I lived close to Tennessee and can drop them off then definitely I use his service.
 
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kwingylee said:
I have decided to go the DIY route using simply speakers kits
Click to expand...

Ok, I'm confused. I thought you stated in post #11 that the "simply stereo kit rfk12 angle" was the best fit. In your comparison chart you show the RFK12 kit as the one from Speaker Exchange. As there is no "simply stereo" on the list I assumed by looking at the part # that is was a typo and you were recommending the Speaker Exchange RFK12.
 
seifreit said:
Ok, I'm confused. I thought you stated in post #11 that the "simply stereo kit rfk12 angle" was the best fit. In your comparison chart you show the RFK12 kit as the one from Speaker Exchange. As there is no "simply stereo" on the list I assumed by looking at the part # that is was a typo and you were recommending the Speaker Exchange RFK12.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I meant speaker exchange.... will edit my post
 
Interesting discussion. I have just gone through this with Simply Speakers and Midwest Speaker Repair . Be warned even if the surrounds are good quality like the ones from Midwest and a perfect fit they do not spec out correctly . My recent rebuild took the FS (free air resonance) from 20HZ to 30HZ even with a long burn in. This will change the inbox resonance from 40 HZ to near 50HZ. Why is that important ? Well for the tuned circuit to work correctly on the 2.5 and 4.5's it needs to have an inbox resonance of 40HZ ( a little lower on the 4.5's) . That is where the ( in the 2.5's case) 20MH coil and 700 MFD cap resonate. This allows the Watkins woofer to do its magic where the high impedance resonant peak for the 4 ohm voive coil at around 40HZ (which is as high as 24 ohms) switches over to the lower impedance 2 ohm voice coil that will have an in box resonant peak of around 5-6 ohms allowing your amp to deliver all the wonderful low bass. It is slightly different for the 4.5's but the same principal applies. Sadly the only one I can find with the correct compliant surround is Watkins and they won't sell you the correct part fpr DYI they only repair. That is unless someone else knows more about this. I have just recently dedone my RS2B's and used Midwest and they were perfect and with 10% of spec. I also did RS1B's from Nashville Speaker repair and they were also great. So what is the deal with the Watkins 12"?
 
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