Info Desired on Big Beautiful Custom University & Hartley Speakers

[zim bida]

Hi everyone, I was hoping members might be able to help me out with some information on a pair of speakers I bought yesterday which I think might supplant a pair of Altec Bolero's in my setup.

Apparently these were custom made (his and her with name badges for each member of the couple on the speakers). Each cabinet is 36 x 24 x 19 with a 10inch full range Hartley driver augmented with a University T-202 Sphericon super tweeter to help with the highs. Doesn't seem to be a crossover that I can find. In the attached pictures the cabinet is shown without padding, but these are absolutely jam packed with fiberglass insulation style padding

I can't find any info on the Hartley driver - from what I could find, it seems to predate the highly regarded white surround 220 MSG fullrangers. I emailed Hartley and they did tell me that these were known as the "XP" speaker and these were not Hartley cabinets, but wasn't able to get specs or production dates or more info

I'm guessing these are University Cabinets - the finish and wood seems similar to what i've seen from the Medallion and Debonair Series, but these are bigger. Looks like it might have been based on something listed here (chart 1, "starting with a full range"
http://www.preservationsound.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/University_1963_p2.pdf

One speaker has a single Guitar Plug style input, the Other has one for input, one for output to the other speaker

Have not hooked these up yet as I'm waiting on Guitar plug to speaker cables, but am excited to do so

Any information would be welcome, especially as regards the Hartley

 

[Drugolf]

I know nothing, but what great looking cabinets.

 

[macyjrm]

I also know nothing except I would have grabbed those in a heartbeat.

 

[toxcrusadr]

Interesting! So are the tweeter and full range wired in parallel? I don't know anything about this tweeter but the only tweeter I've ever heard of that doesn't mind being exposed to full range program is a piezo, because they simply don't respond to low frequencies.

 

[toxcrusadr]

The Sphericon appears to be a fairly conventional phenolic dome tweeter.

Do all the drivers work?

 

[SiliconTi]

I am also ignorant, but I like them!

 

[zim bida]

Right now, I know almost nothing about how they sound, until i get cables - I only have heard a youtube video of the seller playing guitar through them (and with the hartley being a full range, it's hard to tell on the functionality of the tweeter), they were quite a ways from me, but the guy was motivated enough to give me a very fair price and drive a distance to meet me, so I did get them in not quite a heartbeat, but pretty close to it. From the University materials about the sphericon it indicates " I meant to add in photos, there is a pot for tweeter adjustment

 

[toxcrusadr]

The pot was in your photos, figured it was for the tweeter.

The way those wires look in your photo of the speaker with the back off, it appears there is a cable from the input jack and then the pot is added to that and they both go to the drivers, where they split into one cable for each. The usual way for this to work would be to stick a cap on the input to the pot so only treble gets into the pot and then the tweeter. If there is no cap there or at the tweeter itself, I'm stumped how these speakers can work right.

 

[litefootdan]

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/roadtour15/roadtour15.html

That Hartley is bound to sound very nice. I haven’t heard that particular model but I have several of the later, synthetic coned drivers and they are very nice in my estimation. So long as they are healthy you should be in for a treat.

 

[rusomon]

What? Another of these Hartley XP and Sphericon tweeter guitar speaker threads?

Okay, I'm joking. Prior to this thread I'd never even heard of an XP. (And I've spent a stupid amount of time researching Hartleys, trust me.) Safe to say, these are pretty rare. As to when they were made I'd guess mid to late 50s, almost certainly prior to 310s and possibly even earlier than 215s, which would place them among the first US made Hartleys. (The magnets are-- as marked-- made in England.) Most likely they fall somewhere between the 215 and 310. I have to stress, though, this is all pure conjecture. It's too bad the Hartley guy couldn't tell you more. (Usually you see a pair of speakers you assume post 1959; these however appear to be set up as guitar speakers, which changes the equation, I think.)

There are definitely some head scratching aspects to these speakers as they stand. But those can be sorted out, for sure. Best case, add a cap, everything works. Worst case, you still have a pair of ultra rare Hartley full range speakers. This is a good thing, a very good thing.

Good luck. Looking forward to hearing your impressions.

 

[valvenator]

What? Another of these Hartley XP and Sphericon tweeter guitar speaker threads?
Okay, I'm joking. Prior to this thread I'd never even heard of an XP.

Now that there is quite funny.

Usually you see a pair of speakers you assume post 1959; these however appear to be set up as guitar speakers, which changes the equation, I think.)
There are definitely some head scratching aspects to these speakers as they stand. But those can be sorted out, for sure. Best case, add a cap, everything works. Worst case, you still have a pair of ultra rare Hartley full range speakers. This is a good thing, a very good thing.
Good luck. Looking forward to hearing your impressions.

I'm thinking the input jack is there for convenience rather than to be used for guitar.
As for the crossover cap, I wonder if anything is hiding under that tweeter badge?
Description in the link from post one states: Built in network and adjustable brilliance control

BTW, I'd love to hear what the two inch thin MINI sounded like!

 

[zim bida]

I think the Hartley guy might have told me a little more if they weren't also selling "A History of Hartley Loudspeakers" for $75. just a guess.

Now that there is quite funny.

I'm thinking the input jack is there for convenience rather than to be used for guitar.
As for the crossover cap, I wonder if anything is hiding under that tweeter badge?
Description in the link from post one states: Built in network and adjustable brilliance control

BTW, I'd love to hear what the two inch thin MINI sounded like!

I think that may be it. about it the being inside - I did a little more digging on the T-202 and found an ad in a HiFI Stereo Review Magazine from July 1960
http://www.vintagevacuumaudio.com/vintage-magazines/hifi/1960-7-hifi-stereo-review.pdf (p.10)

"University makes is simple to add a tweeter to any loudspeaker system. The new model T-202 Sphericon Super Tweeter can be connected directly to the amplifier terminals in paralled with the existing speaker as it comes with the built in high pass filter that keeps out the lows. The T-202 Sphericon has a frequency response from 3000 to 22,000 cycles within +/- 2 db (transonic response extends to 40,000 cycles). The built-in filter automatically provides a 3000-cycle crossover point. An additional low pass filer may be used to keep the highs out of the woofer.

Unusual in design, the tweeter generates sound with a domed phenolic diaphragm acoustically loaded by a ball-shaped difffactor, the treble is dispersed over an anfgle of 120 in all planes, avoiding piercing directivity and adding to the smoothness of the overall sound impression.

A brilliance control is provided for continuous adjustment of the tweeter output. Mounting flanges on both the tweeter and the control simplify installation. The power rating of 30 watts suffices for all ordinary home applications since only 15 percent of the total power output of the amplifier falls into the tweeter range above 3000 cycles. Dimensions 4 5/8 inches diamter, 4 inches depth. Price $24.95 (University Loudspeakers, Inc. 80 Sou. Kensico Eve., White Plains NY)"


It's killing me waiting on the cables to hear these.

 

[rusomon]

One speaker has a single Guitar Plug style input, the Other has one for input, one for output to the other speaker

I've seen a lot of speakers over the years and never have I seen this particular arrangement on speakers for a home stereo. Kinda weird. Should be fairly straightforward sorting things out, though.

I think the Hartley guy might have told me a little more if they weren't also selling "A History of Hartley Loudspeakers" for $75. just a guess.

A lot of info on the Hartley website went missing about the same time as the book coming out. Quite the mystery...

built in high pass filter that keeps out the lows.

Well, that explains it.


Cool speakers. Good luck.

 

[zim bida]

So the cables came in today and after putzing around trying to figure out why I couldn't get them to play simultaneously (turns out one of the cables was slightly damaged) , and thinking that they were still pretty great as a mono system. I got to hear them.

Wow, just wow. Blown away by the width of the soundstage, and I know this is doing quite a bit, midrange to match Altecs, with quite a bit nicer low end. I actually like the high end on the boleros a little more (but that also could be down to room position as they were placed higher on top of the record cabinet with the tweeters closer to ear level.

Thanks everyone for the info and thank you Dorothy and Arnold

 

[Mike Stehr]

I think it's kinda cool you have speakers named Arnold and Dorothy.

 

[frperdurabo]

IIRC Hartley believed in using balanced connectors for speaker cables - this was at a time when most companies gave you tiny little screw connectors, so he was way ahead of his time.

I've only seen white-coned Hartley drivers - and haven't seen that many - and the pair of Horten Jrs I had would definitely have benefited from an add-on tweeter. Didn't Hartley (or at least his widow) wind up in HoHokus New Jersey?

 

[valvenator]

Odd, this thread is 4 days old and no one has brought up replacing the caps in the crossovers yet. How strange is that?...

BTW zim bida you did get speaker cables and NOT coaxial guitar cables, right?
(using coax cable would be like putting a resistor and capacitor in line with the speaker)

 

[zim bida]

Well I think the thing is that there isn't a crossover that could be found. Tweeters are in parallel with the full ranges with a built in filter in the tweeter. Haven't opened up the tweeters to look into that, but it's in the cards.

Yep, got speaker cables

 

[SmitterDave]

I am not familiar with this Hartley driver, but I am with these... Concert Master VI's, these may be earlier versions as they developed a new woofer.

Mine 24" woofers 8" midwoofer along with mid and tweet all alnico drivers like your woofer.

 

[valvenator]

Whoa, 24" woofers?! That's like having a bass drum in each cabinet!
Are the backs on these sealed?