Wait no. Whoops. Correction the Emotiva is actually $200. Not sure where I get $70. Could’ve sworn I saw it at $70 last night when I searched for it. Oh well. Still and affordable price. Now the question is buying the phono stage from Emotiva, or a Denon SUT, more than likely the 300LC, 305, or 310 models which run around the same price as the Emotiva used on eBay. Thoughts?
Installed brand new cartridge on Kenwood KD-550, new sound is terrible.
- Thread starter Carlo1208
- Start date
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
if your MM input is brand new it might sound as good as a new phono amp used for MM cartridges. Otherwise the new unit will sound better. More options with the phono pre (mm/mc capable) but a well selected sut will work with more than just the 103R.
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
Make sure you hook it up to an aux, or other line level input. Do not put the Emotiva into your phono input on the receiver.
Cheers
Mister Pig
Cheers
Mister Pig
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Another affordable phono preamp that handles both MC and MM cartridges is the Schiit Mani. Just be very, very careful to check for RF transmitters near you. This unit is notorious for it's susceptibility to RF interference. If you live in a big city with a lot of transmitting towers nearby, it's NOT the preamp for you. If you live in the boonies, it's a low cost option. There are web sites where you can enter your location and get a table showing the locations and signal strengths of all the transmitters in your area.
I have not used this unit, but there are lots of glowing reviews online from those who have - although another caveat, most of those reviews are with respect to its MM performance. Definitely dig around for some reviews of its MC performance before making a purchase.
I have not used this unit, but there are lots of glowing reviews online from those who have - although another caveat, most of those reviews are with respect to its MM performance. Definitely dig around for some reviews of its MC performance before making a purchase.
Can you expand on this? Not entirely sure what you refer too. Sorry for being a dumb dumb haha, but I've only figured out all these thing last night. So you're saying there is another part I should put between the Emotiva and the Receiver?
Let me look into it. Think I found one for $150 on Amazon. Let me look at the reviews.
The Emotiva (and most phono preamps) boost the signal to the level of an Auxiliary or Line level source like a CD player. An SUT usually does not.
So, turntable to preamp, preamp to Aux/Line input. Or turntable to SUT, SUT to Phono input.
Alright guys. I talked with Rothwell this morning. He of course gave me the three options I have. Headamp, phono preamp, or SUT. He told me that a preamp will render my phono amp on my Marantz redundant, so it kind of sounded that it's a route he wouldnt recommend. He told me that the SUTs I mentioned from Denon would all suit me well, or I can buy the MC Moving Coil Transfer he sells on BritAudio, which would have me increase my budget by a good bit.
I have several 103 cartridges, including a 103R. They all work very well with the Denon AU-300LC SUT that I bought several years ago but use infrequently now since I got my Auditorium 23 SUT. If you can get a 300LC for a decent price I'd strongly advise buying it. It will serve you well.
I won't comment about the other choices mentioned on this thread because I have little to no experience with them.
I won't comment about the other choices mentioned on this thread because I have little to no experience with them.
Many, and many, threads keep mentioning that SUT. And its the exact thing you've said. "I used to use XXX until I discovered A23 and never looked back" is something I've read many times since last night. Where can I find one?
guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Only redundant in the sense that you will now have two phono inputs. Some of us consider that a good thing! You could run two turntables. One, with a MM, MI or high output MC cartridge directly into the phono input on your Marantz and a second, with your low output Denon MC cartridge, though the preamp (Emotiva, Schiit, or other) and into the AUX input on your Marantz.
A little elementary education on output levels may help you understand this better. These are just generalizations and round numbers. There will be exceptions in extreme cases, but don't worry about those for now.
Most LOMC (low output moving coil) cartridges have out put voltages of a fraction of a mV (milliVolt = 1/1000 volt). Specifically, your Denon is 0.25mV.
Most MM/MI/HOMC (high outpust moving coil) cartridges have output voltages in the single digit mV range (typically between 2mV and 9mV, with most falling between 4mV and 6mV)
Most CD players have output voltages in the 2.0 V range (note: that's volts, not milliVolts).
The inputs on your receiver are designed to be compatible with these output voltages.
So, your MM phono input is expecting to see something in the ~2.0 to 9.0 mV range and an AUX or CD input expects to see something in the 1.5 to 2.0 V range.
A SUT (passive step up transformer), will boost the output voltage of a LOMC cartidge to the point where it will be in the same range as a standard MM cartridge (somewhere around 2.0 mV, depending on the output voltage of your LOMC and the ratio of the primary and secondary windings of the SUT). So that gets you: LOMC -> SUT -> MM phono input.
A phono preamp, will boost the output of a LOMC cartridge into the range expected by an AUX or CD player. So, that gets you: LOMC -> phono preamp -> Aux (or CD) input.
Man even more problems.
I made a forum on Steve Hoffman site.
Pretty much the same question I had here. Someone mentioned that the Denon was made for tone arms with a minimum of 16g effective mass. I can’t find any info on my arm. Buuuuttt in the same thread someone posted on their kenwood with their tonearm and mentioned that it was 10.5g. It was the exact same arm, and head shell.
I should probably just return the damn thing shouldn’t I? Been a headache so far
I made a forum on Steve Hoffman site.
Pretty much the same question I had here. Someone mentioned that the Denon was made for tone arms with a minimum of 16g effective mass. I can’t find any info on my arm. Buuuuttt in the same thread someone posted on their kenwood with their tonearm and mentioned that it was 10.5g. It was the exact same arm, and head shell.
I should probably just return the damn thing shouldn’t I? Been a headache so far
MRL_Audio
RIP 2022
Let me be honest here. I feel like your going down the wormhole here without the knowledge to make the trip. I know that's why your posting here and elsewhere. What you need to consider is what is the best bang for the buck. What sounds the best, provides value, is flexible and has a strong secondary market in case you want to try something else down the road. As you've seen the resell on these is pretty good. A SUT is a one way trip. In other words, provides no value for a MM or MI or High Output Moving Coil. It's good for one application. Low Output Moving Coil. A phono pre like the Emotiva posted earlier will accommodate pretty much anything you toss at it. Sounds good, there are better but that really depends on your ears. Can be resold pretty easily. Is well supported etc. I'd buy new so you get the warranty. There are others in the same space so I am not saying that Emotiva is the answer but it is an answer. At some time you need to bite the bullet and just move forward. You can feel confident that the spend on the Emotiva is worth the expense... for now.
Last edited:
Yeah you’re right. That’s why I’m considering returning it cause it seems like a huge responsibility. Requires lots of knowledge that I don’t have. And seem to lazy to have if I’m being 100% honest. Seems like it requires lots of studying and that’s time I don’t have being a full time college student and workers.
Alright, let’s say I go with the Emotiva. Which more than likely will be my choice. What about the issue of my tonearm?
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
I have a hard time believing a standard quality Japanese tonearm on the KD-550 is damn near a low mass arm. The Denon should work well in that arm but I have not tried it. If it is really a low mass arm, lemme read the poop sheet for it, brb...ok, the arm doesn't talk about low mass so it isn't a low mass arm. It does look lighter than many but I expect it to be a bit over 10.5 but wouldn't know without testing it. If it is low, you could add some weight to the headshell, but at 8.5g for the cartridge and a limit of 12 (using the stock counterweight) there are only a few grams to add. But that would be enough.
You just need to spend some time talking to folks that know turntables and can advise you are you continue down the path to better performance. The AK crowd is good at this. Just ask quesitons. Maybe before the next buy, post up what you have and what you want to do then see what folks say.
You just need to spend some time talking to folks that know turntables and can advise you are you continue down the path to better performance. The AK crowd is good at this. Just ask quesitons. Maybe before the next buy, post up what you have and what you want to do then see what folks say.
Hey
Hey Blue Shadow were you the one that recommended the tonearm a from AudioMods in my other thread?