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integrateds vs TOTL receivers

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merrylander:

I cannot find any high end mag that includes receivers, including TAS. Why single out Stereophile? Snobs, maybe. But considering the high end would demand a receiver section IF the demand was there.... get my point? Markets demand what should be there. Steering markets does NOT work. Receivers are good for the masses where convenience, efficency and practicality are king, not sound quality, imaging and resolution. In these parameters, separates win, hands down, no comparision.

In my system (about $25K) I have all separates. Given the fact I am out for the best sound, period, why would I go separates and not receivers? I am willing to spend the money, so it is not a cash issue. Fact: in the realm of high end sound the receiver does not compete, even TOTL. You CANNOT properly shield a massive component like a receiver where the UTMOST care can be given in a TOTL tuner, amp or preamp. This frankly, is a non debate. Bryston makes an Integrated amp, but that is it (they do not even make a tuner, and only recently made a CDP). NO receivers, and I could list the litany of high end audio makers that make separates and NOT receivers. Remember, in the high end, they make what the market wants. Like LP gear. But no receivers.
 
Twenty20Man said:
not at all, I am thinking about design and when everyone talks about TOTL receivers, they talk about the manufacturers building it the best they could. then they also made the Specs, some fine integrateds. sooo component wise, design wise how much of a difference is there..

I have listened a few 1250's and they all sound good, but mine has been restored every cap replaced some select transisters replaced. and i must say the difference is a huge difference..very dynamic, which got me thinking along these lines..I want to get a good vintage pre..like a 700c or a C200
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I wasn't exactly sure the direction you were going with your questions. Still not sure it can be answered to your satisfaction if the positive posts on separates haven't convinced you by now or given you some ideas to push you over the decision point.

Since you have read the various opinions here saying there can be a marked difference and even after SoCal Sam said the "700m would walk all over the 1250" and you are still asking the same questions, it seems you aren't getting the convincing answer you want. The only way to find out is jump in. Exactly as you did on your receiver journey. The truth is out there.

How much difference can be a factor of your tastes and budget as well as sound preferences and requirements.

I wouldn't stop at using the 700c as a preamp to the 1250. [I can't imagine this as anything but a temporary experiment.] I would give the 700c a fair audition and run it through the 700m. If the 700c/m doesn't knock your socks off, another combination may. You may have experimented enough with receivers, maybe time to put some the same effort in separates to see what that's like when you are ready.

My previous post still holds as a strategy on how to research and audition to get your answers.
 
face it : a good chunk of our hobby IS based on snobbery : it's like sports fans : one team's fan will argue another teams 24/7 .....whats the point ?
You arent gonna convince me , nor I you.

What I find wholly ironic is that imho 95% of these "super high end" components : separate, or otherwise are put in a room which makes most of these arguments rather theoretical ......the room is usually left out of all of these arguments : yet it usually would have a bigger effect on the sound than arguing tube vs ss or separate vs receiver at a given level of audio $$ ...
just mho
 
This debate will go on forever. It reminds me in my line of work the discussions we have on vinyl windows and if they are high end or not. I know what I have in my house and that is all that matters to me.
 
laffs I am certain it will be a temporary experiment, I really like my receivers. i also really believe the shortcomings in any receiver is the preamp. thank you guys I started with a receiver, bought SAE seperates the 2200 amp 2900 pre kenny 600t tuner and i was pretty happy with the sound (cept i hate sliders). sold everything when my kids were born, now i have a bunch of receivers again, while i love them. i think i am going to buy a decent vintage pre..restore it and play around some..thanks again for your input
 
I really have to chuckle at the suggestion that receivers are very deficient in imaging and resolution. All of our three systems image very well and have very good soundstage and resolution. Perhaps not the equivalent of a $25,000 system of separates, but then the best one of the four probably did not cost $1000, not counting the time and energy I put into restoring them. BTW the tuner section of the CR-3020 is surrounded with steel on all sides so I doubt there is a shielding problem, there may be a hernia problem though.:D
 
barkerd said:
face it : a good chunk of our hobby IS based on snobbery : it's like sports fans : one team's fan will argue another teams 24/7 .....whats the point ?
You arent gonna convince me , nor I you.

What I find wholly ironic is that imho 95% of these "super high end" components : separate, or otherwise are put in a room which makes most of these arguments rather theoretical ......the room is usually left out of all of these arguments : yet it usually would have a bigger effect on the sound than arguing tube vs ss or separate vs receiver at a given level of audio $$ ...
just mho
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These are good points. The best views/opinions are those formed by swapping single pieces in and out of the same, familiar set-up.

I once auditioned a Music Hall Maven two-channel receiver that delivered performance unexpected at its price point.
http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MHMAV
It would be easy to find separates that cost twice as much and did not sound as good.
 
I been fortunate over the years to have owned equipment from Rotel, Yamaha, Sansui, Denon, Marantz, NAD, Optonica, Onkyo, Pioneer Elite...etc, etc. Nothing hi end but all very satisfying. My favorite SOUNDING pieces of equipment are a Luxman R-1050 receiver, followed by a Cyrus One integrated. Both are used, are not hi end, but they each SOUND wonderful. Too each his own.

Cheers
 
merrylander said:
I really have to chuckle at the suggestion that receivers are very deficient in imaging and resolution. All of our three systems image very well and have very good soundstage and resolution. Perhaps not the equivalent of a $25,000 system of separates, but then the best one of the four probably did not cost $1000, not counting the time and energy I put into restoring them. BTW the tuner section of the CR-3020 is surrounded with steel on all sides so I doubt there is a shielding problem, there may be a hernia problem though.:D
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I agree with this too..when i hear the term mid-fi or low-fi, i outright laugh at such nonsense
 
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