Interconnect questions

[westend]

I have been doing some experimentation and research involving different types of interconnects. I have been going the DIY route as I believe there is quite a bit of value in making your own and they are easy to make with even limited soldering skills. Results have been good and I've been able to pass along a few pairs to some AK'ers, besides filling my own requirements.

I was using a pretty good interconnect wire, initially, a 24ga. stranded pair within a foil and braid shield. Dielectric was polyfoam, I believe. The next configuration was a digital video cable, coaxial solid copper wire, copper braid shielded with poly based dielectric, also.

I have gotten back favorable response to both types of construction and both seem to be a step above more common interconnects. I'd like to hear some opinions of those who use solid and those that use stranded. If anyone has tried both, are there any positives or negatives to one or the other?

Also, is there a favorite type or brand of interconnect that you prefer? Is your system revealing enough for a different cable pair to make an immediate difference in sound quality? Has the construction of any particular interconnect been far better than others? What place in your system has been the best place to upgrade to a better cable? Has any cable pair been a disappointment ? If you were able to buy any interconnect what would that be? If anyone has anything to add about connector materials, soldering methods, or construction techniques, I'm sure that would be valuable as well.

I hope that this thread can be a learning experience, I know it will be for me. I can post some pics of the cables I've been making if anyone's interested in the visual aspect.

 

[John James]

Pics please.

 

[240sx4u]

I just ordered 60' of canare quad star. Gonna whip up some DIY jobbers this winter.

Evan

 

[Jovinyl]

Hello westend. I also took the D.I.Y. route myself. After reading into the cable threads and online cable sellers and reviews on some. I decided to go with Belden 1694A coax and Canare crimp rca's. I am happy with the results. I had nothing to compare them with except the R-Shack and other gold type connecters. I need not to go any further, though I have been picking up Cat-5 cables left for scrap on job sites and might give that a try at some time. The most noticable difference was the CD player which is a Nad C-542 connected to a Marantz 2325 reciever with Morel-Renaissance MLP-403.5 speakers. Just to make sure I made a set for my clumsy but not a bad sounding KLH CD changer also connected to another 2325 and Renaissance Encore speakers again another very noticable difference. I make these for all my connections now. I can honestly say the most noticable difference was with the CD player. Now for a negative. The canare interconnects have no spilts at the male part that goes over the the female connection which is not a problem until I picked up a 1965 intergated amp and tuner had them serviced got all physced up. Made cables to length for the components I was going to connect, could not get them to seat over the old female RCA inputs. I did find a solution with out having to change out. One day I might have that done. I hope this is the type of response you were looking for. My opinion, good cables can help you get more out of your system than your basic supplied with unit cables. I'll leave it at that. Let me take some pics and I'll put them in later. I am not saying this is a better way just it works for me. I gave a pair to a Ak member I met I think they liked them. Let me get my camera.

 

[Pio1980]

I have been doing some experimentation and research involving different types of interconnects. I have been going the DIY route as I believe there is quite a bit of value in making your own and they are easy to make with even limited soldering skills. Results have been good and I've been able to pass along a few pairs to some AK'ers, besides filling my own requirements.

I was using a pretty good interconnect wire, initially, a 24ga. stranded pair within a foil and braid shield. Dielectric was polyfoam, I believe. The next configuration was a digital video cable, coaxial solid copper wire, copper braid shielded with poly based dielectric, also.

I have gotten back favorable response to both types of construction and both seem to be a step above more common interconnects. I'd like to hear some opinions of those who use solid and those that use stranded. If anyone has tried both, are there any positives or negatives to one or the other?

Also, is there a favorite type or brand of interconnect that you prefer? Is your system revealing enough for a different cable pair to make an immediate difference in sound quality? Has the construction of any particular interconnect been far better than others? What place in your system has been the best place to upgrade to a better cable? Has any cable pair been a disappointment ? If you were able to buy any interconnect what would that be? If anyone has anything to add about connector materials, soldering methods, or construction techniques, I'm sure that would be valuable as well.

I hope that this thread can be a learning experience, I know it will be for me. I can post some pics of the cables I've been making if anyone's interested in the visual aspect.

My experience is strongly negative to any config that returns the signal via the shield ala coax cable. Avoid that approach as a general rule. My test "standard" ICs when I started doing IC experimentation was 18ga zip cord on cheap stamped RCA plugs. All the coax I tried sounded much worse, anything that cost more than them should sound and work better. The lack of shielding was seldom a problem when they were routed away from power cords and speaker runs.
I still use unshielded flat under-carpet style OFC twin-lead speaker cable (not 18 ga zip style) on cheap stamped RCA plugs for my line-level ICs for the last 20+ years as the best price-performance compromise. I am eventually going to expriment making ICs with the same stuff I used to make some faux "Anti-Cable"-ish speaker runs to replace the Cat-5 tackle of the same 20+year usage duration.
S.B.

 

[westend]

Good stuff, guys, exactly the kind of information I needed. Keep it coming.

Pics please.

I've attached a couple of pics. The first is a solid wire, coaxial cable pair. Second is a stranded pair, shielded, two single RCA -> XLR.

I just ordered 60' of canare quad star. Gonna whip up some DIY jobbers this winter.

Evan

Thanks, Evan. I was thinking of using the same star-quad for my next efforts. Any particular reason you chose that wire?

Hello westend. I also took the D.I.Y. route myself. After reading into the cable threads and online cable sellers and reviews on some. I decided to go with Belden 1694A coax and Canare crimp rca's. I am happy with the results. I had nothing to compare them with except the R-Shack and other gold type connecters. I need not to go any further, though I have been picking up Cat-5 cables left for scrap on job sites and might give that a try at some time. The most noticable difference was the CD player which is a Nad C-542 connected to a Marantz 2325 reciever with Morel-Renaissance MLP-403.5 speakers. Just to make sure I made a set for my clumsy but not a bad sounding KLH CD changer also connected to another 2325 and Renaissance Encore speakers again another very noticable difference. I make these for all my connections now. I can honestly say the most noticable difference was with the CD player. Now for a negative. The canare interconnects have no spilts at the male part that goes over the the female connection which is not a problem until I picked up a 1965 intergated amp and tuner had them serviced got all physced up. Made cables to length for the components I was going to connect, could not get them to seat over the old female RCA inputs. I did find a solution with out having to change out. One day I might have that done. I hope this is the type of response you were looking for. My opinion, good cables can help you get more out of your system than your basic supplied with unit cables. I'll leave it at that. Let me take some pics and I'll put them in later. I am not saying this is a better way just it works for me. I gave a pair to a Ak member I met I think they liked them. Let me get my camera.

Good stuff. I am getting reports back from coax cable users that say the detail is improved with coax. Too bad about the Canare crimp connectors. I've not used a crimp style connector, as yet. I have head that it is a better termination, signal wise, than a soldered connection but will have to investigate that to prove it to myself.

My experience is strongly negative to any config that returns the signal via the shield ala coax cable. Avoid that approach as a general rule. My "standard" ICs when I started doing IC experimentation was 18ga zip cord on cheap stamped RCA plugs. All the coax I tried sounded much worse, anything that cost more than them had better sound and work better. The lack of shielding was seldom a problem when they were routed away from power cords and speaker runs.
I still use unshielded flat under-carpet style OFC twin-lead speaker cable (not 18 ga zip style) on cheap stamped RCA plugs for my line-level ICs for the last 20+ years as the best price-performance compromise. I am eventually going to expriment making ICs with the same stuff I used to make some faux "Anti-Cable"-ish speaker runs to replace the Cat-5 tackle of the same 20+year usage duration.
S.B.

I am curious to what you are going to use to assemble the "anti-cable" style IC's. I have heard nothing but good about that style but am at a loss as to how I would construct them.

 

[240sx4u]

Make that 100'. I got it CHEAP from full compass. $32.00 Canare L4E6S-SEG-100 100 feet of L4E6S cable

I have heard it recommended for interconnects and I ended up paying 32 cents a foot, its a cheap thrill.

Evan

 

[whoaru99]

I know the star quad concept sounds nifty, but if you're choosing it for additional noise cancellation, I think there is little, if any, effect of that (with respect to multiple twisted conductors) in an unbalanced (RCA) connection.

Since the connection isn't balanced, you don't have the common mode rejection benefit...and the resultant need for twisted wires to ensure the noise is equally distributed on both lines for full cancellation.

Also, the Star Quad has somewhat high capacitance specs, whether or not it's an audible thing I can't say.

One to look at, if you don't want coax, and if you believe that low capacitance and low inductance facilitates the best signal transfer, is Belden 1800F.

 

[Jovinyl]

Good stuff, guys, exactly the kind of information I needed. Keep it coming.


Good stuff. I am getting reports back from coax cable users that say the detail is improved with coax. Too bad about the Canare crimp connectors. I've not used a crimp style connector, as yet. I have head that it is a better termination, signal wise, than a soldered connection but will have to investigate that to prove it to myself.



The crimp connectors work fine with everything that I have made a connection too except this particular amp and tuner, It is not top of the line and the RCA's on it are Probably bottom barrel. Lafayette Tube.
I had to dress them up, GFA,

 

[Twenty20Man]

Make that 100'. I got it CHEAP from full compass. $32.00 Canare L4E6S-SEG-100 100 feet of L4E6S cable

I have heard it recommended for interconnects and I ended up paying 32 cents a foot, its a cheap thrill.

Evan

thats the cable i used and the canare f-09 rca connector

love it

 

[Pio1980]

I'm using multiple-solid individally-enameled conductor wire for the faux Anti-Cable speaker runs. It's what I had available having used it for antenna wire in the past. That is what I'll be using for the faux Anti-cable ICs. Instead of spiraling the return line around the central sig run as does Paul at A-C, I'll simply loose-twist them together for each run, perhaps covering them with small polyethelyene wire loom. This should work for any enameled wire tried for ICs.

I find the upper end "zip" from coax ICs is a phony unnatural sounding sort of effect, like that of speaker systems where the tweeter phase response 'leads' the midrange.
Again, I recommend the 18 ga twin on cheap & simple crimpless RCA plugs for comparison 'standard' ICs to judge others against.

As a sidebar, there is a lot of system interaction with imbalanced ICs partly due to lack of engineering standards for loudspeaker systems (it would be so much simpler if they all behaved as excellent single full-range drivers without the phase and timing shifts typical of most common multi-driver systems) and other amplitude and phase shifting factors such as in tube amps, line loading, ect. Some cables may 'zig' where something else in the system 'zags' as a result, making the end product sound more or less acceptable. It is impossible to fully correct an amplitude problem with a phase shifting 'cure', and vise-versa. It can easily get like moving deck chairs on a sinking ship, lots of effort for audible differences with no real overall improvement.

Making it all just sound different is easy, making it sound "right" is something else and it helps to have a standard of what sounds "right" rather than "good" if you are after "right". What you hear around you without any technical assistance is "right" if that natural open sound is your goal.

Goodness comes from getting the basics right, glory is to be found in tending to the details.
S.B.

 

[ejfud]

I'm not sure what you made my pair from Lance, but they smoked the silver commercial cables they replaced.

 

[240sx4u]

Whorau99, some of my interconnects ARE balanced. I used this cable because it came recommended as a good cable. Most my interconnects are sub 24", and if capacitance is high Ill keep it off my TT connections.

Evan

 

[Pio1980]

Whorau99, some of my interconnects ARE balanced. I used this cable because it came recommended as a good cable. Most my interconnects are sub 24", and if capacitance is high Ill keep it off my TT connections.

Evan

I've used star quad connected mic cable on my TT with excellent results with Grado and HO moving coil carts.
S.B.

 

[240sx4u]

I've used star quad connected mic cable on my TT with excellent results with Grado and HO moving coil carts.
S.B.

Thanks dude.

 

[westend]

I'm not sure what you made my pair from Lance, but they smoked the silver commercial cables they replaced.

"Smoked" sounds OK :yes:.
That wire is the same as used in the RCA-> XLR cables, pictured above. It is a pair of 22 or 24 ga. (depending on what reference I have) indvidually jacketed, stranded OFC. The pair is in it's own copper foil shielded poly jacket. The outer case contains a copper braid shield outboard of the rest. This wire company (TIFF) was bought out by a larger cable company, the name of which, escapes me.

The use of the different wires brings up more questions: Does anyone measure the capicitance and inductance of the wire they use? Do you rely on published specs.? Is it even possible for the DIY'er to get accurate measurements of these types of wire?

Thanks to all that have posted about theory, construction, and specific branded products. There is a myriad of combinations to look at and I hope to try most of them out. Keep 'em comin'.

 

[Pio1980]

I can measure cap and inductance, I just don't bother as I'm primarily interested in the sonic result in context. I think there are other factors as well that contribute to how this stuff performs in a given setting. I do think distributed capacitance in the cable vs it's inductance is more sonically significant than, say, hanging an equivalent capacitor off the end of a different cable with otherwise similar characteristics. This may or may not relate to behavior something like a velocity-dependent delay line effect that disturbs the relationships of the individual elements of a complex waveform.
Someone much more organized and meticulous than myself could do much better at sorting all that out with observations and measurements of all factors in a given set-up, perhaps using FFT with complex musical content.
S.B.

 

[westend]

I can measure cap and inductance, I just don't bother as I'm primarily interested in the sonic result in context. I think there are other factors as well that contribute to how this stuff performs in a given setting. I do think distributed capacitance in the cable vs it's inductance is more sonically significant than, say, hanging an equivalent capacitor off the end of a different cable with otherwise similar characteristics. This may or may not relate to behavior something like a velocity-dependent delay line effect that disturbs the relationships of the individual elements of a complex waveform.
Someone much more organized and meticulous than myself could do much better at sorting all that out with observations and measurements of all factors in a given set-up, perhaps using FFT with complex musical content.
S.B.

Agreed. I think the type of components being used dictates the type of cable. As was posted previously, low capacitance and low inductance are bottom line goals when choosing wire but there is a lot more going on from either side of the transfer.