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Interesting Washington Post article on Vinyl

Cut & paste of how they recorded the digital versions of the two tracks:

"We recorded these samples in front of Jonathan Weiss’s $363,000 Oswalds Mill Audio (OMA) speakers in his Brooklyn showroom, using a binaural mic and a stereo mic at 32bit_192kHz. The digital file was streamed through an iFi nano iOne home DAC, which has a Bluetooth codec maxing out at 16bit_48kHz. The audio files have been matched post-production to have the same loudness. (Of course, nothing sounds quite like being there.)"

What kind of crap is this? They have $363,000 speakers and then use a $150 DAC???? :eek: And then they are streaming to it via Bluetooth?????? :eek::eek:

I'm astounded they couldn't be bothered to even make it look like it wasn't a fake comparison. And not a comment about the cheap digital treatment by either the author or the 636 user comments :(.
 
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intro6 said:
It really doesn't have to be this daunting or complicated. At whatever price level for which you buy a new turntable (used could be a different story), it will almost certainly come pre-adjusted from the factory and sound about the best it could. Also, if you're interested in going somewhat higher in price level, you can buy from a dedicated audio shop, and they'll adjust the settings and make sure you have a compatible cartridge and needle before you take it home. The main thing to be concerned with is to be sure to plug it into either a phono preamp or an integrated amp with phono inputs, not line inputs. Then ... just enjoy! The sound of the music will almost certainly be very good (depending on condition of the record, of course). Now, if you're a tweaker type who's not satisfied with the simple, direct approach that most people take, well then you're on your own. You'll probably be doing a lot of endless experimentation trying to squeeze out that last 1% or so. But if that's your thing, who am I to say it's wrong?
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I don’t know why people think they have to choose a format ! Why not enjoy them all st some level !
 
AC50 said:
The whole vinyl thing is pretty daunting. Think about all the variables along the way. Between pressings and surface condition, source material is idiosyncratic as all get out. Then there's the needle, cartridge and set up with cables that actually matter leading to a phono preamp and it's concerns. Each area a moving target that needs to be copacetic with each other and then integrated within the larger system. What could go wrong and how can digital possibly keep up?
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I agree... Vinyl can sound good and right now, since I recently did some upgrading my TT setup sounds better than ever and maybe even better than CDs, but then again, my digital setup is probably only 1/5 or so of the value of my TT setup. On the whole though vinyl is a PIA to get the very best from it and comes with a lot of frustrations with the varability and condition of that records themselves, not to mention belts, stylus and such to wear out on the thing that plays that stuff. I find it funny how many folks are starting to collect vinyl and assume that it it will automatically "sound better than digital," when as we all know, it can take a lot of work and even more $ for it to really shine...
 
@rothwellaudio

Why this reaction? Didn't I also say that if you were interested in a somewhat higher price turntable, that purchasing from a dedicated audio shop where they could tweak it beforehand would be a good way to go? That sentence you cherrypicked was intended more for someone who was wary and perhaps even intimidated by vinyl, but still cautiously interested, and therefore maybe didn't want to spend much money to try it out. It's the way so many have started out in the hobby. I was just trying to encourage others to try it out and see if they like it. A new low price turntable will provide exactly that low risk opportunity, and there will be a warranty that goes along with it. Now, I'm not knocking the many good used turntables out there, but that is an inherently more risky approach unless, of course, you already have one sitting around. So anyway, if you go with the low price turntable, yeah sure it's not going to measure up to higher end models, but it will almost certainly sound decent enough for what it is ... enough to enjoy some vinyl and consider if it's something you would want to pursue any further.
 
intro6 said:
So anyway, if you go with the low price turntable, yeah sure it's not going to measure up to higher end models, but it will almost certainly sound decent enough for what it is
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And if go with digital, a $2 DAC will sound about the same as a $20K DAC, so why bother with vinyl? :biggrin:
 
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The funny thing is ... they put him on the spot
and he nailed his "hot stamper" as the one to have. A prick he may be, but he can back up
his position - few can.
 
intro6 said:
@rothwellaudio

Why this reaction? Didn't I also say that if you were interested in a somewhat higher price turntable, that purchasing from a dedicated audio shop where they could tweak it beforehand would be a good way to go? That sentence you cherrypicked was intended more for someone who was wary and perhaps even intimidated by vinyl, but still cautiously interested, and therefore maybe didn't want to spend much money to try it out. It's the way so many have started out in the hobby. I was just trying to encourage others to try it out and see if they like it. A new low price turntable will provide exactly that low risk opportunity, and there will be a warranty that goes along with it. Now, I'm not knocking the many good used turntables out there, but that is an inherently more risky approach unless, of course, you already have one sitting around. So anyway, if you go with the low price turntable, yeah sure it's not going to measure up to higher end models, but it will almost certainly sound decent enough for what it is ... enough to enjoy some vinyl and consider if it's something you would want to pursue any further.
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The interesting thing about vinyl is it is a pita but what you put in is what you get back and there is a real satisfaction getting Thea cart and table just right with a good lp ! It takes effort and patience but it also is very rewarding to some , yes digital is easier, is it better ? Sometimes but not always , vinyl is not a convenient format but it’s addictive one !
 
When someone asks me inane questions of this nature (cd vs vinyl, redheads vs blondes, Ford vs Chevy) I tend to think "Why in the world would someone limit themselves to just one?

I married a dishwater blonde. I ADORE Latinas, Irish redheads, and Scandinavian snow bunnies, and dated women from at least 4 different countries in all shapes, sizes, ethnicities and ages as a young man. While I love my wife, I will forever cherish the memories of those other gals in a completely healthy way.

Cds, records and tape of all kinds have a home here. See the parallel?
 
My favorite part of this whole MoFi debacle(which the article touches a bit upon) was the audiophiles who had an existential crises because they had unknowingly sinned by listening to digital.
 
rothwellaudio said:
Because many turntables (most? :dunno:) don't even come with a cartridge. A lot of turntables don't even come with an arm. Of those that do come with an arm and cartridge when bought, it's a little optimistic to assume that the setup is optimised before you even touch it.
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Gee, that's funny. I was just looking through a recent Audio Advisor catalog. Every single turntable shown in there is listed as having tonearm and cartridge as part of the product being sold. Only two of them even list the option of no cartridge. None have the option of no tonearm indicated. And these turntables range upwards in price to a pretty significant price on the high side.
 
intro6 said:
Gee, that's funny. I was just looking through a recent Audio Advisor catalog. Every single turntable shown in there is listed as having tonearm and cartridge as part of the product being sold. Only two of them even list the option of no cartridge. None have the option of no tonearm indicated. And these turntables range upwards in price to a pretty significant price on the high side.
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Well, I stand corrected. Obviously you're the expert and I don't know what I'm talking about. All turntables come with a cartridge and are perfectly set up straight out of the box. Not knowing what I'm talking about, obviously I have no idea how these things are transported.
 
I ignored the advice to turn up the volume (plus we're talking headphones plugged into computer speakers) and guessed wrong on both the Miles and Neil Young "which one is vinyl" samples. The "which digital is better" Carole King comparison was easy.

Anyway, interesting to know that it takes a $300k+ system to sort out which stampings and CDs are the best.
 
I subscribe to the Post and when I saw it was about Better Records and Tom I decided very quickly it was a waste of time to read it. I guess the Post isn't aware of all the controversy this guy causes.
 
Tom Port's right, different pressings sound different. Hot stampers have been around since the late 70s thanks to TAS. Anyone else ever notice that many Japanese pressings sound a bit thin/sterile. It's not surprising that he picked his record. The first played was clearly weak compared to the other two, but I didn't notice much of a difference between those two. Didn't do a relisten though. His customer base is folks who have too much money to spend. :cool: Visiting his record store would be fun. I liked the video, especially when he brought up 'tube magic'.
 
RobRoy said:
I found this article to be interesting, but troubling. For starters, it's not about the music at all. It's about comparing pressings and, frankly, getting wrapped around the axle regarding minutiae.

It actually gets more interesting at the point where the title becomes "A Journey Back to Vinyl", which is about someone rediscovering vinyl.

Article here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts...ive/2022/perfect-sound-quality-vinyl-records/

Note: as usual, to get past the paywall, just get ready to hit the "stop" button on the page loading icon on your browser as soon as you see any content come up. It may take more than one try. If you do it to early, nothing loads, If you wait too long, the "overlay message" has already kicked in. And once that happens, you have to use a different browser to try again. That last part is a new thing.
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Well, there is a new one on me. Hanging the speaker wires from the ceiling. Did he use a certain kind of string? Maybe......a certain length? ?
 
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